HC Deb 18 December 1929 vol 233 cc1409-17
Sir GERVAIS RENTOUL

I beg to move, That leave be given to bring in a Bill to empower the Minister of Health to give such directions as may be necessary to local authorities for the purpose of ensuring the fulfilment of undertakings given by, and on behalf of, His Majesty's Government during the General Strike, 1926. I am hopeful that this Bill will commend itself to a majority of the Members on all sides of the House, because it seeks to remedy a grave anomaly which has revealed itself during the past few days. We now discover that it is apparently open to any local authority to set at naught the solemn pledges given by His Majesty's Government on behalf of the nation. We are told that the Government have no power to intervene, and that so little as they are concerned in the matter that it is out of order to put questions in this House to any Member of the Government with regard to these matters, because they are not responsible for them. This Bill seeks to empower the Minister of Health, acting on behalf of the Government, to issue such directions as may be necessary to local authorities in order to ensure the fulfilment of undertakings and pledges given by His Majesty's Government. [Hon. MEMBERS: "What were those undertakings?"] I regret that it should have been necessary to revive unpleasant memories and the bitter experience through which this country passed some three years ago. I regret that very much; but the recent incident in connection with the tramway men at Hull has made it altogether unavoidable and inevitable. We have learned that a large number of tramway men employed by the Hull Corporation have been threatened with dismissal or with reduction to a lower grade in the service after three years of unblemished service on their part, and it has been publicly suggested that they are being dismissed or degraded because the majority of the Tramways Committee desire to rid themselves of men who had volunteered during the General Strike, and for no other reason. Whether this be so or not I am not able to say at the moment.

We understand that the matter is to be ventilated in the Courts, and no doubt the whole of the circumstances on both sides will then be brought into the light of day, and consequently I desire to say nothing that is likely in any way to prejudice those pending legal proceedings. But the gravity of the matter as it affects this House is that on Thursday last, when the right hon. Lady the Minister of Labour was questioned about the matter she, without attempting to deny the accuracy of the statements that were made, said she had no power to intervene in this matter. I think most of us must have heard that admission with surprise and with a certain feeling of shock, because, apart from the legal position, one would have imagined that the moral influence of the Government was sufficient to have carried very great weight, especially with a number of men who are their avowed supporters, especially as that influence was used on previous occasions by the right hon. Lady's predecessor. If it be true that the Government have no power to intervene, then I submit to the House that it is not only desirable but essential that they should have such power. That is why I hope for a large measure of support from hon. Members here, irrespective of party divisions, because there is no doubt whatever that a very clear and definite pledge was given in regard to this matter. I say that in spite of the ingenious suggestion made yesterday by the hon. Member for Shore-ditch (Mr. Thurtle) that no such pledge ever was given and that it was merely an appeal made by the Prime Minister of the day. I am afraid that will not do. [Interruption.] Public memories may be short, but they are not quite as short as that. [Interruption.]

HON. MEMBERS

Order!

Sir G. RENTOUL

Not only was such a pledge given, but it was given on the authority of the whole House, and if such pledges are given a very grave state of affairs arises if they are not observed. [Interruption.] What was the pledge? It was a pledge many times repeated throughout that period. It appeared in its clearest and most concise form in an official statement issued on 6th May, 1926, in which are contained these words: When the present General Strike is ended His Majesty's Government will take effectual measures to prevent victimisation of any man who remains at work or may return to work.

Mr. SEXTON

Which they did not do.

HON. MEMBERS

Order!

Sir G. RENTOUL

And then there appear these words: No man who does his duty loyally to the country in the present crisis will be left unprotected by the State from subsequent reprisals.

Mr. W. THORNE

rose—[Interruption.]

Mr. SPEAKER

There will he an opportunity for reply.

Sir G. RENTOUL

On 13th May, after the General Strike—[Interruption.]

Mr. SPEAKER

I must ask the hon. Member for Pontefract (Mr. T. Smith) not to keep on interrupting.

4.0 p.m.

Sir G. RENTOUL

On 13th May, after the General Strike had collapsed, the right hon. Member for Bewdley (Mr. S. Baldwin), then Prime Minister, used these words in this House: I have given no pledges at it all during this conflict except one, and that is, that those who help the Government should not Suffer for having done so. … If ever I went back on that pledge, who would ever trust me again? Not only that, but who would ever trust a Government again? The present Prime Minister said, in the course of the same discussion, that the House should make a declaration to the whole of the nation to that effect. The right hon. Member for Derby (Mr. Thomas), now Lord Privy Seal, said: I ask every Member of this House who has any influence to join in substantiating the plea of the Prime Minister, with which I heartily associate myself. As far as the Liberal party is concerned, the right hon. Member for Carnarvon Boroughs (Mr. Lloyd George), at that time used these words: I should also like to say I am in entire agreement with the Prime Minister that it is essential that the pledges he gave during the strike should be redeemed. Anyone confronted with such an emergency as the Government had to encounter had to take action for the purpose of carrying on the life of the community. They could only do so by encouraging men to undertake tasks which had been deserted by others. In order to do so, pledges had to be given both to those who remained at their tasks and to those who were prepared to come in, and I cannot see how any Government, or any employers, can fail to carry out pledges of that kind without dishonour."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 13th May, 1926; eels. 1045–57, Vol. 195.] I could multiply quotations of that kind, but it is quite clear from what I have said that this pledge was given by His Majesty's Government on behalf of the nation, and it was given with the express consent and approval of all parties in this House. In these circumstances, I do submit that it is intolerable that a local council should he in a position to set such a solemn undertaking at nought, and especially when we are told that it is part of a long-cherished design. One of the councillors concerned is reported in the Press to have said publicly that his party on the council had been waiting for a long time to get these men out. Another Member of the committee said that if the men were not dismissed, they must definitely go to the bottom. That is to say, for the last three years these men have been working satisfactorily, some of them have obtained promotion—

Mr. THORNE

Over the heads of others.

Sir G. RENTOUL

—and now they are to be either dismissed or to go right to the bottom of the ladder. As I say, there may be an answer to all this, but if the facts are as stated, I do submit that it would be an abuse of power by the tramways committee and the whole corporation. I hope it is not true, but it is certainly a breach of both the letter and the spirit of the pledge that was very solemnly given in this House. It upsets an equitable agreement that has been working very well for a long time past. It revives bitter memories. I do urge upon the House that this is a matter in regard to which the Government ought to be in a position to intervene, and if they have not got the authority and the power to do so, they ought to be accorded it, as they are under the terms of this Bill. For all these reasons, I hope I shall obtain not only the leave of the House to bring in this Big, but also a very large measure of active sympathy and support.

Mr. MUFF

I rise to oppose this Bill. It is somewhat of an ordeal for a new Member to be called upon, but I should be lacking in my duty if I did not, as representing part of the county borough of Kingston-upon-Hull, try to inform the House as to the real facts of this case. I want to say right out that this is an attempt to put right the victimisation which has been going on since 1st May, 1926, at the behest of the right hon. Member for Epping (Mr. Churchill). At the outset, seeing that the hon. Member opposite has mentioned the City of Hull and its Corporation, it would be as well if I might be allowed to quote the actual resolution passed on 26th November, 1929. It states: That the whole of the volunteers be given notice to terminate their engagement; that they be given the option of applying for re-engagement"—

HON. MEMBERS

Why?

Mr. MUFF

I will try to explain that when I have read the Resolution. the option of applying for re-engagement in the lowest grades; that the principle of promotion which was in operation prior to May, 1926, shall apply, namely, that seniority of services, coupled with ability, shall be the basis of promotion, and that with respect to those employés who were on the undertaking prior to May, 1926, and Who have since received promotion for other reasons than the one outlined above, the general manager be instructed to review their cases on the basis of the principle Laid down. It is a sorry history of what has been transpiring, not only in the city of Kingston-upon-Hull, but in other places where systematic victimisation took place. Kingston-upon-Hull was affected for days after the rest of the country had come to terms owing to the fact that the new party of the right hon. Member for Epping, the undergraduate party, filled the city. They came in large numbers at a cost of £15,000 to the rates. [An HON. MEMBERS: "Mostly spent in drink."] No, Sir, they only spent £900 odd in refreshments. When the strike was settled, they called in mind the words of the Leader of the Opposition, the then Prime Minister. It was difficult. There were only two Labour members upon the tramways committee. The Conservative majority expelled them, and refused to allow them to do their duty to the burgesses of Kingston-upon-Hull. The right hon. Member for Epping, the editor of the "British Gazette," in putting into force the Emergency Powers Act, saw to it that one of these men was arrested and sent to gaol for six months. He came out of a sick bed suffering from a diseases prostration, and, instead of excusing Limy they persecuted him.

Let us come to the crux of what happened. The then chairman of the tramways committee pitchforked into offices of responsible men volunteers contrary to the terms of the advertisement for their engagement which I have here in black and white, and made them into inspectors, supervisors and so forth. To such an extent had the scandal grown that even the party with which hon. Members opposite are associated had a committee of inquiry, and it was found that many men who had been promoted were inefficient. Fourteen were left, and of these one committed suicide, one died, and, with the exception of three or four, they were sacked by Members of the party opposite because they were inefficient. It amounts to this: There are 113 volunteers to-day. They have received notice which takes effect at the end of February, and the hon. Member opposite and his lady friend need not be under any apprehension that they will have to put their hands into their pockets to pay for any Christmas dinners. These men, if they are out of employment, will put themselves out of employment. Boiled down to the actual facts, it concerns two inspectors, three time-keepers, and 18 motor-men who were promoted contrary to the service conditions, and contrary to the regulations of the advertisement which I have here. Those men will be offered reinstatement in the grade at which they should be put, and according to the terms of the corporation service, that is, at the lowest grade, and men who have been victimised since the General Strike are going to be promoted with from 20 to 25 years' service. We want to bury the hatchet, and but for the action of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Epping (Mr. Churchill), who has endeavoured to bring about a class war, the hatchet would have been buried long ago. I am told that, in football parlance, the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the Opposition has pet the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Epping on the transfer list. I want to say, in conclusion, that if I thought one of those 113 men was going to be thrown on the streets I should not be standing up in my place this afternoon opposing this Measure. I am convinced that justice is going to be done to those 113 men, and also to the 700 men who are left, as well as to the manager who was victimised at the behest of the party

opposite. I hope the House will not give a First Reading to this Bill.

Question put: That leave be given to bring in a Bill to empower the Minister of Health to give such directions as may be necessary to local authorities for the purpose of ensuring the fulfilment of undertakings given by, and on behalf of, His Majesty's Government during the General Strike, 1926.

The House divided: Ayes, 185; Noes, 202.

Division No. 108.] AYES. [4.17 p.m.
Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel Fison, F. G. Clavering Morrison-Bell, Sir Arthur Clive
Albery, Irving James Foot, Isaac Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge)
Allen, W. E. D. (Belfast, W.) Ford, Sir P. J. Nicholson, O. (Westminster)
Aske, Sir Robert Forestler-Walker, Sir L. Nicholson, Col. Rt. Hn. W. G. (Ptrsf'ld)
Atholl, Duchess of Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. Nield, Rt. Hon. Sir Herbert
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley (Bewdley) Ganzoni, Sir John Oliver, P. M. (Man., Blackley)
Balfour, Captain H. H. (I. of Thanet) Gault, Lieut.-Col. Andrew Hamilton Oman, Sir Charles William C.
Balniel, Lord George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke) Ormsby-Gore, Rt. Hon. William
Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P. H. Gibson, C. G. (Pudsey & Otley) Owen, H. F. (Hereford)
Beaumont, M. W. Glassey, A. E. Peake, Capt. Osbert
Bellairs, Commander Carlyon Glyn, Major R. G. C. Penny, Sir George
Berry, Sir George Graham, Fergus (Cumberland, N.) Peters, Dr. Sidney John
Birchall, Major Sir John Dearman Granville, E. Peto, Sir Basil E. (Devon, Barnstaple)
Birkett, W. Norman Grattan-Doyle, Sir N. Preston, Sir Walter Rueben
Blindell, James Gray, Milner Pybus, Percy John
Bourne, Captain Robert Croft Greaves-Lord, Sir Walter Ramsay, T. B. Wilson
Bowyer, Captain Sir George E. W. Gretton, Colonel Rt. Hon. John Ramsbotham, H.
Bracken, B. Hacking, Rt. Hon. Douglas H. Rathbone, Eleanor
Braithwaite, Major A. N. Hamilton, Sir George (Ilford) Rawson, Sir Cooper
Briscoe, Richard George Hamilton, Sir R. (Orkney & Zetland) Remer, John R.
Brown, Col. D. C. (N'th'l'd., Hexham) Hanbury, C. Robinson, Sir T. (Lancs, Stretford)
Brown, Ernest (Leith) Harbord, A. Rodd, Rt. Hon. Sir James Rennell
Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Berks, Newb'y) Hartington, Marquess of Rothschild, J. de
Buchan, John Harvey, Major S. E. (Devon, Totnes) Ruggles-Brise, Lieut-Colonel E. A.
Buckingham, Sir H. Haslam, Henry C. Runciman, Rt. Hon. Walter
Bullock, Captain Malcolm Henderson, Capt. R. R. (Oxf'd, Henley) Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth)
Butler, R. A. Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel Arthur P. Salmon, Major I.
Castle Stewart, Earl of Hennessy, Major Sir G. R. J. Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham)
Cautley, Sir Henry S. Hoare, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir S. J. G. Sandeman, Sir N. Stewart
Cayzer, Sir C. (Chester, City) Hore-Belisha, Leslie. Savery, S. S.
Cayzer, Maj. Sir Herbt, R. (Prtsmth, s.) Howard-Bury, Colonel C. K. Simon, E. D. (Manch'ter, Withington)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. Sir J. A. (Birm., W.) Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.) Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir John
Chapman, Sir S. Hunter, Dr. Joseph Sinclair, Sir A. (Caithness)
Christie, J. A. Hurd, Percy A. Skelton, A. N.
Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston Spencer Hutchison, Maj.-Gen. Sir R. Smith, R. W.(Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, C.)
Cohen, Major J. Brunel Iveagh, Countess of Smith-Carington, Neville W.
Colfox, Major William Philip James, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. Cuthbert Smithers, Waldron
Colman, N. C. D. Jones, F. Llewellyn- (Flint) Somerville, A. A. (Windsor)
Colville, Major D. J. Jones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth) Southby, Commander A. R. J.
Conway, Sir W. Martin Kindersley, Major G. M. Spender-Clay, Colonel H.
Cowan, D. M. King, Commodore Rt. Hon. Henry D. Steel-Maitland, Rt. Hon. Sir Arthur
Cranbourne, Viscount Knox, Sir Alfred Stuart, J. C. (Moray and Nairn)
Crichton-Stuart, Lord C. Lamb, Sir J. Q. Sueter, Rear-Admiral M. F.
Croft, Brigadier-General Sir H. Lane Fox, Col. Rt. Hon. George R. Thomson, Sir F.
Crookshank, Capt. H. C. Law, Sir Alfred (Derby, High Peak) Titchfield, Major the Marquess of
Croom-Johnson, R. P. Leighton, Major B. E. P. Train, J.
Cunliffe-Lister, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip Llewellin, Major J. J. Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement
Dairymple-White, Lt.-Col. Sir Godfrey Locker-Lampson, Rt. Hon. Godfrey Vaughan-Morgan, Sir Kenyon
Davidson, Rt. Hon. J. (Hertford) McConnell, Sir Joseph Wallace, Capt. D. E. (Hornsey)
Davies, Dr. Vernon Macdonald, Capt. P. D. (I. of W) Ward, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. Lambert
Davies, Maj. Geo. F. (Somerset, Yeovil) Macpherson, Rt. Hon. James I. Warrendor, Sir Victor
Davison, Sir W. H. (Kensington, S.) Macquisten, F. A. Waterhouse, Captain Charles
Duckworth, G. A. V. Makins, Brigadier-General E. Williams, Com. C. (Devon, Torquay)
Dugdale, Capt. T. L. Mander, Geoffrey le M. Wilson, G. H. A. (Cambridge U.)
Eden, Captain Anthony Margesson, Captain H. D. Wolmer, Rt. Hon. Viscount
Edge, Sir William Marjoribanks, E. C. Womersley, W. J.
Edmondson, Major A. J. Mitchell-Thomson, Rt. Hon. Sir W. Wood, Rt. Hon. Sir Kingsley
Elliot, Major Walter E. Mond, Hon. Henry Worthington-Evans, Rt. Hon. Sir L.
Elmley, Viscount Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. Sir B. Young, Rt. Hon. Sir Hilton
England, Colonel A. Moore, Sir Newton J. (Richmond)
Erskine, Lord (Somerset, Weeton-s.-M.) Moore, Lieut.-Colonel T. C. R. (Ayr) TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Faile, Sir Bertram G. Morris-Jones, Dr. J. H. (Denbigh) Sir Gervais Rentoul and Major
Fielden. E. B. Morrison, W. S. (Glos., Cirencester) Carver.
NOES.
Adamson, Rt. Hon. W. (Fife, West) Henderson, W. W. (Middx., Enfield) Quibell, D. J. K.
Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) Herriotts, J. Raynes, W, R.
Addison, Rt. Hon. Dr. Christopher Hirst, G. H. (York W. R. Wentworth) Richards, R.
Angell, Norman Hoiline, A. Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring)
Ayles, Walter Hopkin, Daniel Riley, Ben (Dewsbury)
Baldwin, Oliver (Dudley) Horrabin, J. F. Riley, F. F. (Stockton-on-Tees)
Barnes, Alfred John Hudson, James H. (Huddersfield) Ritson, J.
Batey, Joseph Isaacs, George Romerll, H. G.
Beckett, John (Camberwell, Peckham) John, William (Rhondda, West) Rosbotham, D. S. T.
Benn, Rt. Hon. Wedgwood Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) Rowson, Guy
Benson, G. Jowett, Rt. Hon. F. W. Salter, Dr. Alfred
Bevan, Aneurin (Ebbw Vale) Jowitt, Rt. Hon. Sir W. A. Samuel, H. W. (Swansea, West)
Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. Kelly, W. T. Sanders, W. S.
Broad, Francis Alfred Kennedy, Thomas Sandham, E.
Brockway, A. Fenner Kinley, J. Sawyer, G. F.
Bromfield, William Kirkwood, D. Scrymgeour, E.
Bromley, J. Knight, Holford Scurr, John
Brooke, W. Lansbury, Rt. Hon. George Sexton, James
Brothers, M. Law, Albert (Bolton) Shaw, Rt. Hon. Thomas (Preston)
Brawn, C. W. E. (Notts. Mansfield) Law, A. (Rossendale) Shepherd, Arthur Lewis
Brown, James (Ayr and Bute) Lawrence, Susan Sherwood, G. H.
Buchanan, G. Lawson, John James Shield, George William
Burgess, F. G. Leach, W. Shiels, Dr. Drummond
Buxton, C. R. (Yorks, W. R. Eiland) Lee, Frank (Derby, N. E.) Shillaker, J. F.
Buxton, Rt. Hon. Noel (Norfolk, N.) Lee, Jennie (Lanark, Northern) Shinwell, E.
Caine, Derwent Hall- Lewis, T. (Southampton) Short, Alfred (Wednesbury)
Cameron, A. G. Lindley, Fred W. Simmons, C. J.
Cape, Thomas Lloyd, C. Ellis Sinkinson, George
Carter, W. (St. Pancras, S. W.) Logan, David Gilbert Smith, Alfred (Sunderland)
Charleton, H. C. Longbottom, A. W. Smith, Frank (Nuneaton)
Chater, Daniel Longden, F. Smith, Rennie (Penistone)
Clarke, J. S. Lowth, Thomas Smith, Tom (Pontefract)
Cluse, W. S. Lunn, William Sorensen, R.
Clynes, Rt. Hon. John R. Macdonald, Gordon (Ince) Spero, Dr. G. E.
Cocks, Frederick Seymour McElwee, A. Stamford, Thomas W.
Compton, Joseph McEntee, V. L. Stephen, Campbell
Cove, William G. McKinlay, A. Stewart, J. (St. Rollox)
Daggar, George MacLaren, Andrew Strauss, G. R.
Dallas, George Maclean, Nell (Glasgow, Govan) Sullivan, J.
Dalton, Hugh Malone, C. L'Estrange (N'thampton) Sutton, J. E.
Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) Mansfield, W. Taylor, R. A. (Lincoln)
Day, Harry March, S. Taylor, W. B. (Norfolk, S. W.)
Denman, Hon. R. D. Marcus, M. Thomas, Rt. Hon. J. H. (Derby)
Dickson, T. Mathers, George Thorne, W. (West Ham, Pialstow)
Dukes, c Matters, L. W. Thurtle, Ernest
Ede, James Chuter Maxton, James Tout, W. J.
Edmunds, J. E. Messer, Fred Turner, B.
Edwards, C. (Monmouth, Bedwellty) Milner, J. Viant, S. P.
Edwards, E. (Morpeth) Morley, Ralph Wallhead, Richard C.
Gardner, B. W. (West Ham. Upton) Morrison, Robert C. (Tottenham, N.) Watkins, F. C.
Gardner, J. P. (Hammersmith, N.) Mort, D. L. Watson, W. M. (Dunfermline)
Gibson, H. M. (Lanes. Mossley) Moses, J. J. H. Wedgwood, Rt. Hon. Joslah
Gillett, George M. Mosley, Lady C. (Stoke-on-Trent) Wellock, Wilfred
Gosling, Harry Mosley, Sir Oswald (Smethwick) Welsh, James (paisley)
Gossling, A. G. Murnin, Hugh Welsh, James C. (Coatbridge)
Gould, F. Naylor, T. E. West, F. R.
Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) Noel Baker, P. J. Westwood, Joseph
Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. (Colne) Oldfield, J. R. Whiteley, Wilfrid (Birm., Ladywood)
Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool) Oliver, George Harold (Ilkeston) Whiteley, William (Blaydon)
Groves, Thomas E. Palin, John Henry Wilkinson, Ellen C.
Grundy, Thomas W. Paling, Wilfrid Williams, David (Swansea, East)
Hall, F. (York, W.R., Normanton) Palmer, E. T. Williams, T. (York, Don Valley)
Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) Parkinson, John Allen (Wigan) Wilson, J. (Oldham)
Hamilton, Mary Agnes (Blackburn) Perry, S. P. Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow)
Hardie, George D. Phillips. Dr. Marion Winterton, G. E.(Leicester, Loughb'gh)
Hayes, John Henry Picton-Turbervill, Edith Wright, W. (Rutherglen)
Henderson, Arthur, Junr. (Cardiff, S.) Pole, Major D. G.
Henderson, Thomas (Glasgow) Potts, John S. TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Mr. Muff and Mr. Arnott.