§ Captain GARRO-JONESasked the President of the Board of Trade who is responsible for carrying out inspections and for the enforcement of Board of Trade rules in respect of British ships sailing between foreign ports?
§ Mr. H. WILLIAMSConsuls at foreign ports have limited powers for securing compliance with the Merchant Shipping Acts, and can generally arrange for a ship to be surveyed where this is necessary or summon a Naval Court to deal with a specific complaint, but they have no technical staff and do not make regular inspections. Where inspections take place they are generally made by surveyors of the classification societies or similar bodies or by officers appointed for the purpose by foreign Governments.
§ Captain GARRO-JONESIn view of the inadequacy of the powers which are possessed by Consular officials, will the Parliamentary Secretary take steps to improve the law in this respect, so that it shall be the duty of British Consular officials, or other foreign officials to see that the Board of Trade regulations are put into force on ships sailing into foreign ports?
§ Mr. WILLIAMSRegulations with regard to ships leaving foreign ports are imposed by the legislation of the foreign Government itself, and I ask the hon. and gallant Member to realise that we cannot enforce British laws quite freely in other countries, however desirable it may be to do so.
§ Sir ROBERT THOMASIs it not the case that Lloyds Register has a surveyor in every important port in the world and that such surveyor has perfect liberty to go on board all ships registered at Lloyds in any port in the world?
§ Mr. WILLIAMSThat, obviously, is the case, and the Classification Society has rendered valuable services by the inspections that they are constantly making.
§ Captain GARRO-JONESIn view of the fact that the Board of Trade has powers over foreign vessels sailing from British ports, may I ask whether foreign countries have full power over British vessels sailing from foreign ports, and whether these powers were exercised in the case of the steamship "Vestris"?
§ Mr. WILLIAMSBroadly speaking, every country is presumed to enforce its own laws, and as far as I know the United States enforced its own laws in this case.
§ Sir A. SHIRLEY BENNMay I ask whether steps can be taken by which the 1519 captains of British ships must submit their papers to the Consul in a foreign port? A case occurred some years ago in which the Board of Trade instructed a British captain that he need not submit his papers to the British Consul.
§ Mr. WILLIAMSI must have notice of that question.
§ 18. Sir WALTER de FRECEasked the President of the Board of Trade whether tests as to the efficiency of boats on ocean-going liners are carried out prior to each voyage; and whether ocean-going liners are expected to carry sufficient boats, apart from rafts, etc., to accommodate, in case of need, all the passengers and the crew?
§ Mr. H. WILLIAMSAll passenger vessels trading to or from ports in the United Kingdom are thoroughly surveyed at least once a year by Board of Trade surveyors, and ocean-going vessels carrying large numbers of third-class passengers undergo a further survey before the beginning of each voyage from the United Kingdom. All the British ocean-going liners trading from this country carry boats for all, and, in addition, rafts for 25 per cent. of the persons on board.
§ Mr. SHINWELLIs the hon. Gentleman's Department satisfied that the boats on passenger liners are all inspected before each voyage?
§ Mr. WILLIAMSI am not certain that the boats on passengers liners are all inspected before each voyage.
§ Mr. SHINWELLIf the Parliamentary Secretary is not satisfied that a regular and efficient inspection of such boats takes place, will he take steps to see that such inspection is carried out in future?
§ Mr. WILLIAMSThe question refers to the efficiency of boats on passenger vessels and not necessarily to any particular item of the equipment of such vessels.
§ Mr. HAYESMay I ask whether the Department is becoming disturbed by the frequent complaints of overloading?
§ Mr. WILLIAMSThat point does not arise out of the question. I do not accept the suggestion as true.
§ Mr. SHINWELLWill the hon. Member take it from me—[HON. MEMBERS "No!"]—that these boats are not properly inspected?
§ Sir R. THOMASIs it not the case that every passenger liner has boat drill during every voyage—[HON. MEMBERS: "No!"]and that the boats are put into the water during the voyage? [HON. MEMBERS: "No!"]
§ 19. Sir W. de FRECEasked the President of the Board of Trade whether the inspectors of his Department have any responsibility for the proper storage of cargo below decks; and, if so, of what nature?
§ Mr. H. WILLIAMSThe responsibility for the proper stowage of the cargo rests on the persons concerned in sending the ship to sea. The Board of Trade surveyors do not intervene unless there is reason to think that a ship is improperly loaded and cannot go to sea without serious danger to life.
§ Mr. WILLIAMSNot off-hand.
§ Mr. WILLIAMSI have not had my personal attention drawn to any.
§ Mr. W. THORNEIs there any guarantee that the cargo is properly stored away and tightened up before the vessel leaves?
§ Mr. WILLIAMSThe primary responsibility is laid quite properly on the master of the ship. His own life is at stake, and he is therefore likely to be much more careful than anyone else.
§ Sir HARRY BRITTAINHave we not up to the moment been accustomed to trust the mercantile marine?
§ Mr. B. SMITHMay I ask whether any limitation is placed on deck cargo, and whether any inspection is made to see that the regulations are carried out?
§ 20. Sir W. de FRECEasked the President of the Board of Trade whether pasenger life-saving drill is prescribed on each voyage of all ocean-going steamers; and how often the crews of such boats are trained in boat lowering?
§ Mr. H. WILLIAMSAlthough there is at present no power to require boat drill to be carried out on passenger ships, standard regulations on the subject were drawn up some time ago by the Merchant Shipping Advisory Committee, on which all the shipping interests are represented, and these are in substance followed on all ocean-going passenger vessels, although the details vary in different lines and in different trades. I am sending my hon. Friend a copy of the standard regulations.
§ Sir W. de FRECEIs the Parliamentary Secretary satisfied that the life-belts provided on these liners are inspected at the same time as the boats?
§ Mr. WILLIAMSI should imagine that they are not examined in detail. They are all of an approved pattern.
§ Mr. SHINWELLShould not the recommendations of this important advisory committee in respect of life-boat drill be made compulsory?
§ Mr. HURDIs it not within the knowledge of the Parliamentary Secretary that there are certain lines on which boat drill for passengers does not take place until the voyage is nearly over?
§ Mr. WILLIAMSThe question does not refer to boat drill by passengers, but to what is more important, boat drill by the crew. On some ships, there are no arrangements, deliberately, for boat drill by passengers, because the companies prefer to assemble the passengers at stated points rather than opposite the boats, because some of the boats may happen to be damaged and not available.