HC Deb 20 November 1928 vol 222 cc1541-3
46. Mr. WEDGWOOD BENN

asked the Prime Minister whether it is the intention of the Government to refer the Local Government (Scotland) Bill to the Standing Committee on Scottish Bills, and, if not, for what reason?

The PRIME MINISTER (Mr. Baldwin)

The answer to the first part of the question is in the negative. As regards the second part, the Local Government Bills for England and Scotland are so closely inter-related, especially as regards finance, that it is necessary that both the Bills should be dealt with in Committee of the whole House.

Mr. BENN

Does not the Prime Minister think that it would be more appropriate that the Members for Scottish constituencies should be consulted on details of the changes in Scottish law?

Mr. MACPHERSON

May I ask my right hon. Friend whether he can give further consideration to the answer which he has just given, in view of the fact that this Bill is purely Scottish and that the appropriate body to discuss Committee points of the Bill is the Standing Committee on Scottish Bills?

The PRIME MINISTER

I think it has always been the custom of this House that Bills of the very first importance so far as possible shall be kept on the Floor of this House.

Mr. BENN

Can the right hon. Gentleman state any recent precedent where an important' Scottish Bill of this character has been kept on the Floor of the House?

The PRIME MINISTER

I think the latter part of my reply answers that, namely, that as there is much of the Bills in common and they are so closely inter-related, they are Bills on which the verdict of the whole House should he taken, just as we have the assistance of the Scottish Members in regard to English Bills.

Mr. BENN

Does the right hon. Gentleman say, therefore, that it is necessary to bring in the opinion of English Members in order to override the opinion of Scottish Members?

Mr. SCRYMGEOUR

In view of the fierce opposition in Scotland to this Measure, will the Prime Minister reconsider the question of cutting out this Bill from Scotland altogether?

Mr. SHINWELL

Is the right hon. Gentleman's reason for not sending it to the Standing Committee on Scottish Bills that he is afraid to face the verdict of the Scottish Members of his own party?

Mr. MACLEAN

rose

Mr. SPEAKER

There will be a Motion put to the House as to whether or not the Bill should go to Committee of the whole House. That will be the occasion when Members, if they think fit, can vote against the Motion.

Mr. MACLEAN

This is a matter which affects Scotland, and I want to ask the Prime Minister if, in view of the fact that there are so many changes made by him in the Bill that he is making applicable to Scotland, due to the difference that exists in Scottish law and assessment matters, he will not reconsider the reply which he has just given and allow Scotland to discuss the matter in the Standing Committee on Scottish Bills which was set up in order to give Scotland the opportunity —[Interruption].

Mr. SPEAKER

The Prime Minister has already answered that question, and he can only give the same reply again.

Mr. MACLEAN

On a point of Order. For your protection, Sir, but for the interruptions from the other side my question would have been ended before you rose to your feet, and if you are going to protect Members of the other side, I am going to ask you to extend the same protection to Members upon this side.

HON. MEMBERS

Order!

Mr. SPEAKER

I shall treat all Members alike.

Mr. KIRKWOOD

I wish to ask the Prime Minister if it is not the case that the Secretary of State for Scotland personally went and appealed to the Prime Minister in order that he—[Interruption.].

Mr. SPEAKER

We cannot debate the question now.