HC Deb 17 May 1928 vol 217 cc1353-5

I beg to move, in page 4, line 39, at the end, to insert the words, "and a copy of every agreement so made shall be presented to Parliament."

This Clause deals with the profits of the note issues to be paid to the Treasury. I should like to ask for some information as to what it is estimated the total expenses of the note issue will be under the new circumstances. It used to be put down at about £6,000,000, and the expenditure borne by the Board of Inland Revenue amounted to something like £350,000. I want to know if we can have any indication as to what it is expected that the expenses will be so that we may have some idea as to what the income will be. We want to know whether the profits will remain as much as they were before. I move this Amendment in order that we may be made acquainted with the agreement which has been made, and the actual terms that have been arranged with the Bank of England. I do not see why the Committee should not be informed as to what are the actual conditions, and that is the reason why I am moving this Amendment.


This Amendment provides that a copy of every agreement so made shall be presented to Parliament. May I point out that the actual result is put before Parliament, because it comes into the finance accounts, and therefore is subject to the ordinary criticisms of the House of Commons. The agreement contemplated under this Clause is one come to by the parties concerned, and it accounts for the expenditure and the profits. Really this will be an agreement of accounts

Division No. 131.] AYES. [10.21 p.m.
Adamson, Rt. Hon. W. (Fife, West) Buchanan, G. Greenall, T.
Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) Cape, Thomas Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan)
Alexander, A. V. (Sheffield, Hillsbro') Charleton, H. C. Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool)
Ammon, Charles George Cluse, W. S. Groves, T.
Attlee, Clement Richard Connolly, M. Grundy, T. W.
Baker, J. (Wolverhampton, Bilston) Cove, W. G. Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil)
Baker, Walter Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities) Hamilton, Sir R. (Orkney & Shetland)
Barr, J. Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) Handle, George D.
Batey, Joseph Day, Harry Hayday, Arthur
Broad, F. A. Duncan, C. Hayes, John Henry
Bromley, J. Gibbins, Joseph Henderson, Right Hon. A. (Burnley)
Brown, Ernest (Leith) Gillett, George M. Henderson, T. (Glasgow)
Brown, James (Ayr and Bute) Graham, D. M. (Lanark. Hamilton) Hirst, G. H.

between the accountants on the one side, and the accountants on the other, and it is an agreement which is not capable of being laid before Parliament in the sense of a written document. The result will come before Parliament in the finance accounts, and therefore this Amendment seems to be entirely unnecessary. The hon. Member asked me a question about the expenses. I may say that the expenses are likely to be a little more because better paper will be used for the issue, but the Government expect that the net result will be a gain of £250,000 a year. The whole of the net profit on the issue of fiduciaries will be payable to the Government.


Does that mean that we shall be told that the net receipts are £6,000,000, or that we shall be told that the receipts are so much and the amount paid to the Bank is so much? Does it mean that particulars will be given or only the final result?


I am not quite sure what form it takes in the accounts, but I am certain that if the hon. Gentleman, seeing the form of the accounts, wants to ask questions, he will not fail to elicit the information for which he has asked.


There is no information given at the present time, as far as I know.


Oh, yes, there is.


Not in the accounts.


Yes; I understand that it is given in the financial account.

Question put, "That those words be there inserted."

The Committee divided: Ayes, 112: Noes, 216.

Hirst, w. (Bradford, South) Parkinson, John Allen (Wigan) Stewart, J. (St. Rollox)
Hollins, A. Pethick-Lawrence, F. w. Sullivan, Joseph
Hore-Belisha, Leslie Ponsonby, Arthur Sutton, J. E.
Hudson, J. H. (Huddersfield) Potts, John S. Thorne, W. (West Ham, Plalstow)
John, William (Rhondda, West) Purcell, A. A. Thurtie, Ernest
Johnston, Thomas (Dundee) Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) Tinker, John Joseph
Jones, J. J. (West Ham, Silvertown) Ritson, J. Tomlinson, R. P.
Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) Rose, Frank H. Varley, Frank B.
Jones, T. I. Mardy (Pontypridd) Runciman, Rt. Hon. Walter Viant, S. P.
Kelly, W. T. Saklatvala, Shapurji Wallhead, Richard C.
Kennedy, T. Scurr, John Watson, W. M. (Duntermline)
Kenworthy, Lt.-Com. Hon. Joseph M. Sexton, James Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda)
Kirkwood, D. Shaw, Rt. Hon. Thomas (Preston) Wellock, Wilfred
Lawson, John James Shinwell, E. Welsh, J. C.
Lee, F. Short, Alfred (Wednesbury) Wheatley, Rt. Hon. J.
Lindley, F. W. Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir John Whiteley, W.
Lunn, William Sitch, Charles H. Wilkinson, Ellen C.
Mackinder, W. Slesser, Sir Henry H. Williams, T. (York, Don Valley)
Malone, C. L'Estrange (N'thampton) Smillie, Robert Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow)
Maxton, James Smith, H. B. Lees- (Keighley) Windsor, Walter
Montague, Frederick Smith, Rennie (Penistone) Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton)
Murnin, H. Snell, Harry
Oliver, George Harold Snowden, Rt. Hon. Philip TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Palln, John Henry Stamford, T. W. Mr. Charles Edwards and Mr. A. Barnes.
Paling, W. Stephen, Campbell
Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel Edmondson, Major A. J. Kindersley, Major G. M.
Ainsworth, Lieut-Col. Charles Edwards, J. Hugh (Accrington) King, Commodore Henry Douglas
Albery, Irving James Elliot, Major Walter E. Knox, Sir Alfred
Alexander, E. E. (Leyton) Ellis, R. G. Lamb, J. Q.
Applin, Colonel R. V. K. Fanshawe, Captain G. D. Leigh, Sir John (Clapham)
Ashley, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Wilfrid W. Fielden, E. B. Little, Dr. E. Graham
Astbury, Lieut.-Commander F. W. Forestier-Walker, Sir L. Lloyd, Cyril E. (Dudley)
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley Forrest, W. Locker-Lampson, Com.O. (Handsw'th)
Balniel, Lord Foster, Sir Harry S. Loder, J. de V.
Barclay-Harvey, C. M. Fremantie, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. Looker, Herbert William
Barnett, Major Sir Richard Gadie, Lieut.-Col. Anthony Lougher, Lewis
Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P. H. Ganzoni, Sir John. Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Vere
Bellairs, Commander Carlyon Gates, Percy Luce, Major-Gen. Sir Richard Harman
Bennett, A. J. Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John Lynn, Sir R. J.
Berry, Sir George Gower, Sir Robert MacAndrew, Major Charles Glen
Bethel, A. Grace, John Macdonald, Sir Murdoch (Inverness)
Betterton, Henry B. Graham, Fergus (Cumberland, N.) Macdonald, R. (Glasgow, Cathcart)
Birchall, Major J. Dearman Grant, Sir J. A. MacIntyre, Ian
Bourne, Captain Robert Croft Grattan-Doyle, Sir N. McLean, Major A.
Bowater, Col. Sir T. Vansittart Greaves-Lord, Sir Walter Macmillan, Captain H.
Bowyer, Capt. G. E. W. Greene, W. P. Crawford Macnaghten, Hon. Sir Malcolm
Brass, Captain W. Grenfell, Edward C. (City of London) MacRobert, Alexander M.
Brocklebank, C. E. R. Grotrian, H. Brent Maitland, A. (Kent, Faversham)
Brooke, Brigadier-General C. R. I. Gunston, Captain D. W. Makins, Brigadier-General E.
Broun-Lindsay, Major H. Hacking, Douglas H. Marriott, Sir J. A. R.
Brown,Brig.-Gen.H.C.(Berks, Newb'y) Hall, Lieut.-Col. Sir F. (Dulwich) Mason, Colonel Glyn K.
Bull, Rt. Hon. Sir William James Hall, Capt. W. D'A. (Brecon & Rad.) Meller, R. J.
Burman, J. B. Hamilton, Sir George Meyer, Sir Frank
Burton, Colonel H. W. Hammersley, S. S. Mitchell, S. (Lanark, Lanark)
Butt, Sir Alfred Harland, A. Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. B. M.
Cadogan, Major Hon. Edward Harrison, G. J. C. Nelson, Sir Frank
Carver, Major W. H. Harvey, G. (Lambeth, Kennington) Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter)
Cassels, J. D. Harvey, Major S. E. (Devon, Totnes) Oakley, T.
Cayzer, Maj.Sir Herbt.R.(Prtsmth, C) Haslam, Henry C. O'Connor, T. J. (Bedford, Luton)
Cecil, Rt. Hon. Sir Evelyn (Aston) Headlam, Lieut.-Colonel C. M. Oman, Sir Charles William C.
Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N. (Ladywood) Henderson, Capt. R. R.(Oxf'd, Henley) Penny, Frederick George
Christle, J. A. Henderson, Lieut.-Col. Sir Vivian Perkins, Colonel E. K.
Churchman, Sir Arthur C Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel Arthur P. Peto, G. (Somerset, Frome)
Cochrane, Commander Hon. A. D. Henn, Sir Sydney H. Pilcher, G.
Colfox, Major Wm. Phillips Hennessy, Major Sir G. R. J. Power, Sir John Cecil
Colman, N. C. D. Hills, Major John Waller Pownall, Sir Assheton
Conway, Sir W. Martin Hilton, Cecil Preston, William
Cooper, A. Duff Hoare, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir S. J. C. Price, Major C. W. M.
Cope, Major William Holbrook, Sir Arthur Richard Raine, Sir Walter
Couper, J. B. Hope, Capt. A. O. J. (Warw'k, Nun.) Ramsden, E.
Courtauld, Major J. S. Hopkins, J. W. W. Reid, D. D. (County Down)
Craig, Sir Ernest (Chester, Crewe) Howard-Bury, Colonel C. K. Rice, Sir Frederick
Crookshank, Col. C. de W. (Berwick) Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.) Richardson, Sir P. W. (Sur'y, Ch'ts'y)
Crookshank, Cpt. H. (Lindsey, Gainsbro) IIiffe, Sir Edward M. Roberts, Sir Samuel (Hereford)
Curzon, Captain Viscount Inskip, Sir Thomas Walker H, Rodd, Rt. Hon. Sir James Rennell
Dalkeith, Earl of Jackson, Sir H. (Wandsworth, Cen'l) Ruggles-Brise, Lieut.-Colonel E. A.
Davidson, Major-General Sir John H. James, Lieut-Colonel Hon. Cuthbert Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth)
Davies, Maj. Geo.F.(Somerset,Yeovil) Jephcott, A. R. Rye, F. G.
Davies, Dr. Vernon Jones, Sir G. W. H. (Stoke New'gton) Salmon, Major I.
Dean, Arthur Wellesley Joynson-Hicks, Rt. Hon. Sir William Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham)
Drewe, C. Kennedy, A. R. (Preston) Samuel, Samuel (W'dsworth, Putney)
Sandeman, N. Stewart Sugden, Sir Wilfrid Williams, A. M. (Cornwall, Northern)
Sanders, Sir Robert A. Tasker, R. Inigo. Williams, Com. C. (Devon, Torquay)
Sassoon, Sir Philip Albert Gustave D. Templeton, W. P. Williams, Herbert G. (Reading)
Savery, S. S. Thom, Lt.-Col. J. G. (Dumbarton) Wilson, R. R. (Stafford, Litchfield)
Sheffield, Sir Berkeley Thompson, Luke (Sunderland) Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George
Shepperson, E. W. Thomson, F. C. (Aberdeen, South) Withers, John James
Skelton, A. N. Thomson, Rt. Hon. Sir W. Mitchell- Wolmer, Viscount
Smith, R. W. (Aberd'n & Kinc'dlne, c.) Titchfield, Major the Marquess of Womersley, W. J.
Smith-Carington, Neville W. Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement Wood, B. C. (Somerset, Bridgwater)
Somerville, A. A. (Windsor) Vaughan-Morgan, Col. K. P. Wood, E. (Chest'r, Stalyb'dge & Hyde)
Sprot, Sir Alexander Ward, Lt.-Col. A.L. (Kingston-on-Hull) Wood, Rt. Hon. Sir Kingsley
Stanley, Lieut.-Colonel Rt. Hon. G. F. Warner, Brigadier-General w. W. Worthington-Evans, Rt. Hon. Sir L.
Stanley, Lord (Fylde) Warrender, Sir Victor Yerburgh, Major Robert D. T.
Stanley, Hon. O. F. G. (Westm'eland) Waterhouse, Captain Charles Young, Rt. Hon. Sir Hilton (Norwich)
Steel, Major Samuel Strang Watson, Rt. Hon. W. (Carlisle)
Storry-Deans, R. Wells, S. R. TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Streatfeild, Captain S. R. White, Lieut.-Col. Sir G. Dairymple. Captain Margesson and Captain

Clause ordered to stand part of the Bill.