HC Deb 03 May 1928 vol 216 cc1874-7
70. Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY

asked the Minister of Transport whether he is examining into the question of the increased speed of large passenger motor coaches, especially on the country roads; whether special warnings are issued to the companies concerned against arranging a programme of journeys which practically compel the drivers to proceed at excessive speed; and whether his attention has been called to the advertised list of journeys, mileage, and times, as for example, London to Norwich 4½ hours, London to Southampton 3½ hours, and London to Newcastle in 12 hours, the latter journey including time to stop for meals?

The SECRETARY of STATE for the HOME DEPARTMENT (Sir William Joynson-Hicks)

I have been asked to reply to this question. The responsibility for enforcing the law as to the speed of motor vehicles rests in each area on the chief officer of police; in the Metropolitan Police district special attention is being given to the speed of these large vehicles. I have seen advertisements of the kind to which the hon. Member refers, hut apart from specific action taken in regard to vehicles found to be proceeding at excessive speeds the police have no power to control the programme of journeys which may be advertised by the companies concerned.

Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that one of the dangers is the strain on the drivers proceeding on these long journeys at high speeds, and is it not obvious that the law must be broken for a motor omnibus to go from London to Newcastle in 12 hours?

Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKS

With regard to the first point, that is a matter with which the police cannot deal. As far as the second point is concerned, the police must have evidence that at some particular part of the journey the speed of 12 miles an hour has been exceeded. All I can say is that, with regard to traffic of this advertised character, the police are well aware by now of the speeds advertised, and if they succeed in obtaining sufficient evidence that the speed at any part of the journey is grossly excessive, I have no doubt they will take the necessary steps.

Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY

Is this not driving a motor coach through an Act of Parliament?

Captain BRASS

Will my right hon. Friend consider the advisability of setting some of his well-known police traps for these vehicles?

Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKS

That is only putting in a little more curt form what I was endeavouring to explain to the hon. and gallant Member for Central Hull (Lieut.-Commander Kenworthy).

Mr. DAY

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that these men are compelled by their employers to do these journeys, otherwise their services are dispensed with, and will he not consider whether some steps cannot be taken against the employers?

Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKS

I am advised that in cases of this kind, if evidence is given that the men were compelled or induced by their employers to break the law in this manner, the employers might be found to be equally guilty.

Mr. BUCHANAN

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that these bills advertising the journey, say, from Glasgow to Liverpool advertise a time that cannot be done without breaking the law, and that the bill itself, advertised by the employers, is a direct incitement to the employés to break the law? Cannot he take action against employers for inciting their employés to break the law?

Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKS

I have tried to explain to the hon. and gallant Member for Central Hull that the police must have evidence before they can go into a court of law and prosecute either driver or owner for a criminal offence; and after attention has been called to this matter to-day I am quite satisfied that efforts will be made in different parts of the country where the speed is grossly excessive to get legal evidence of it, and proceedings will follow.

Major COLFOX

Is there any legal limit to the number of hours or the number of miles which any one driver can drive these big, fast vehicles in any one day?

Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKS

No, I think there is no legal limit.

Colonel HOWARD-BURY

Can my right hon. Friend say whether the law is only 12 miles an hour, and whether that is not much too low and ought to be extended to 20 miles an hour?

Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKS

That would be a matter for legislation, which could only be done by this House.

Colonel HOWARD-BURY

What is the law at present?

Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKS

Twelve miles an hour for heavy vehicles.