§ 52. Mr. LANSBURYasked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will 255 inform the House how many persons receiving old age pensions during the three years ending 28th February, 1923, have been prosecuted for obtaining pensions under false pretences; in how many cases have such persons escaped prosecution on condition that they made restitution; and how many have had their pensions reduced as a means of ensuring repayment of the sums wrongfully obtained?
§ Mr. BALDWINDuring the three calendar years, 1920, 1921 and 1922, 477 persons were prosecuted in Great Britain, under Section 9 (1) of the Old Age Pensions Act, 1908, for having knowingly made false statements or false representations for the purpose of obtaining or continuing, either for themselves or for other persons, old age pensions, to which they were not entitled. The liability to prosecution under this Sub-section is distinct from the liability, under other provisions of the law, to repay the amount overpaid; and a person does not escape prosecution on condition of making repayment. Particulars are not available of the number of cases in which payment of old age pension has been withheld in order to effect recovery of a previous overpayment.
Mr. McENTEECan the right hon. Gentleman tell us how many of those prosecutions resulted in conviction?
§ Mr. BALDWINI am afraid not, without notice.
§ Mr. BRIANTIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that a reduction of old age pensions simply means that the pensioners have to be provided with outdoor relief to provide for decreased income?
§ 64. Mr. T. WILLIAMSasked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what is the estimated cost to provide all men over the age of 60 years with a pension of 20s. per week, and the estimated cost of providing a pension of 20s. per week for all men and women over 60 years of age.
§ Mr. BALDWINSubject to the more exact estimates that will be possible when the full Census particulars are available, the answer to the first part of the question may be put at approximately £90,000,000, and to the second part at approximately £200,000,000.
72. Mr. STURROCKasked the Under-Secretary to the Scottish Board of Health whether he is aware that much uncertainty exists among old age pensioners in Scotland as to the nature of their private means which they are called upon to declare as disqualifying them from full pension; that in some cases local officers press applicants to declare such sums as they receive in private charity; and whether the House will have an opportunity, on the Scottish Estimates or otherwise, of discussing the methods adopted by officials to extract information on these points from old people who have reached pensionable age?
§ Major BOYD-CARPENTERIn calculating means for old age pension purposes, the law requires all items of means, of whatever nature and from whatever source received, to be taken into account. If the hon. Member has in mind any case or cases in which it is considered that the old age pension officer has exceeded his duty, and will send me particulars, I will have inquiry made.
Mr. STURROCKIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that there have been many cases of what appears to be a form of inquisition exercised at the expense of the old people, and will he carefully consider the Regulations under which these officers work, since some of them attempt to make old age pensioners acknowledge purely charitable gifts as an addition to. their means of subsistence?
§ Mr. SPEAKERThat is part. of the hon. Member's original question.