§ 42. Mr. HANNONasked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether, seeing that His Majesty's Government presented to the Government of the Union of South Africa, following on the close of the Great War, three merchant vessels, two mine-sweepers, and one survey sloop, he will say what were the considerations involved in making this gift to the Union of South Africa; and if any compensation of any kind had been arranged for the benefit of the British taxpayer?
§ The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER (Mr. Churchill)The gifts to which my hon. Friend refers are of two distinct classes, namely, prize ships, 554 and surplus war vessels. In the former class, four ships, of the estimated value of £85,000, were transferred to the Union of South Africa free of charge, in consideration of the fact that the net value of the Droits of Admiralty condemned in the Prize Courts of the Union amounted to at least that sum. Full particulars of this transaction are contained in Treasury Minute of the 21st June, 1926, which was presented to Parliament as a Command Paper (Command 2685). The two mine-sweepers and one survey sloop belong to the latter class. These vessels, which were surplus to naval requirements at the time, were transferred to the Union of South Africa in 1921 for a total payment of £8,500. The lowest possible price was charged in consideration of the fact that the vessels were destined for use in the development of the South African Naval Service and the establishment of a South African Survey Service.
§ Mr. HANNONWill my right hon. Friend say who was the officer responsible for the completion of this arrangement with the Government of South Africa at that time?
§ Mr. CHURCHILLI could certainly do so if notice were given.
§ Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHYIs it not a fact that this gift of ships was made to a Dominion which performed very great services to the common cause during the War and suffered severely, and will he refute the suggestions underlying these questions from the hon. Member representing the City of Joseph Chamberlain?
§ Mr. CHURCHILLI am not aware of any suggestions which are underlying the question at all. I addressed myself simply to answering the questions of fact which have been raised.
§ Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHYWhy should the right hon. Gentleman give the name of the officer concerned? Is not that contrary to the practice of this House?
§ Mr. CHURCHILLI know nothing which should preclude such a disclosure, but if there should be any reason which would make it contrary to precedent to make such a disclosure, I shall unquestionably adduce that reason when the proper time comes.
§ 43. Mr. HANNONasked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he is aware that, as stated by the Minister of Railways in the Parliament of the Union of South Africa on 4th May, 1926, railway rails of the value of £500,000 were presented to the Union by His Majesty's Government; if any consideration has been given by the Union for this concession; and if this action meant a loss of this amount to the British taxpayer?
§ Mr. CHURCHILLYes, Sir. In 1919 His Majesty's Government in Great Britain decided to present His Majesty's Government in the Union of South Africa with rails and railway material which had been used in France, to the value of £500,000. As the presentation was made in consideration of services rendered by the Union Government of at least an equal value, particularly in connection with the use of the South African Railways for the transport of troops and material during the African campaigns, it cannot be said to have involved a loss of that amount to the British taxpayer.
§ Mr. E. BROWNDoes not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the services of General Smuts alone were worth this £500,000?
§ Mr. CHURCHILLA very conservative estimate.
§ 44. Mr. HANNONasked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will prepare a statement, for the information of the House, of the nature and value of the gifts which were made by His Majesty's Government to the Government of the Union of South Africa following upon the close of the Great War, and which will set forth the details of the value of such gifts in relation to defence endowment lands, defence endowment buildings, aircraft and stores, barrack stores, engineer stores, and artillery and stores; if any consideration has been given for these gifts by the Union of South Africa; and what has been the net burden upon the taxpayers of Great Britain consequent upon these concessions?
§ Mr. CHURCHILLThis statement will require a little time to prepare, and I will circulate it as soon as it is ready.
§ Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHYCan the right hon. Gentleman say whether it is necessary to go into details, and whether it is not obvious that the arrangement made was equitable to both parties and altogether a credit both to our own Government and to the Union of South Africa?
§ Mr. CHURCHILLOn that assumption, I cannot see that any harm would be done by circulation of the information.
§ Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHYMay I ask which is now the party of the Little Englanders?
§ Mr. CHURCHILLIt will take a great many more facts than a few supplementary questions from the hon. and gallant Member to clear his character in that respect.
§ Lieut.-Colonel JAMESIs it not eminently desirable to publish the full details of this question?
§ Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHYrose—
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe hon. and gallant Member must not pursue this matter further.