HC Deb 15 March 1928 vol 214 cc2065-8

Resolution of the House of the 13th day of March relative to the London, Midland and Scottish Railway (Road Transport, Scotland) Bill, and the London and North Eastern Railway (Road Transport, Scotland) Bill, which was ordered to be communicated to the Lords, and the Message from the Lords of the 14th day of March signifying their concurrence in the said Resolution, read.

Motion made, and Question proposed, That the Order [12th March] that the London, Midland, and Scottish Railway (Road Transport, Scotland) Bill, and the London and North Eastern Railway (Road Transport, Scotland) Bill be committed, be read and discharged, and the said Bills be committed to the Joint Committee on Railway (Road Transport) Bills: That all Petitions in favour of or against the London, Midland, and Scottish Railway (Road Transport, Scotland) Bill and the London and North Eastern Railway (Road Transport, Scotland) Bill, respectively, presented on or before the 30th day of March, 1928, be referred to the Committee; that the Petitioners praying to be heard against the Bills by themselves, their Counsel, Agents, or witnesses, be heard, and Counsel be heard in support of the Bills: That it be an Instruction to the Committee that they have power, if they think fit, to consolidate the London, Midland, and Scottish Railway (Road Transport) Bill and the London, Midland, and Scottish Railway (Road Transport, Scotland) Bill into one Bill, and to consolidate the London and North Eastern Railway (Road Transport) Bill and the London and North Eastern Railway (Road Transport, Scotland) Bill into one Bill."—[The Chairman of Ways and Means.]

The CHAIRMAN of WAYS and MEANS (Mr. James Hope)

I ought to explain to the House that this Resolution proposes to send to the Joint Committee which was set up yesterday, two Bills relating to the proposals of the London and North Eastern Railway Company and the London, Midland and Scottish Railway Company, with regard to road transport, in so far as those proposals relate to the Scottish portion of the undertakings. In pursuance of the provisions of the Scottish Procedure Act, it was necessary that the parts of these proposals relating to Scotland should be separate Bills, and they have lagged a day or two behind the English Bills dealing with the same subject. The proposals are the same, and the promoters are the same, and it is now proposed to send them to the same Committee which the House has already set up.

Mr. KIRKWOOD

Are we to take it, that we are to be treated in this fashion, and that no allowance will be made for the two or three days which we are behind in this matter, so that we may give these Bills proper consideration? These Bills are going to affect Scotland in a very drastic fashion, and we have had no time to look into it in order to see what is behind them. I object.

The CHAIRMAN of WAYS and MEANS

The House has already read these Bills a Second time, and they are exactly the same as the English Bills. It is now proposed to send them to the same Committee, so that they may be all considered together.

Mr. MACPHERSON

Does not the right hon. Gentleman think that, as these are purely Scottish Bills, they ought to be sent to a Committee composed of members of the Scottish Standing Committee, so that the interests of Scotland may be protected?

The CHAIRMAN of WAYS and MEANS

The Scottish Standing Committee has been set up for the consideration of public Bills. These are private Bills. They deal solely with the road transport proposals of the London, Midland and Scottish, and London and North Eastern Railway Companies, and the proposals are exactly the same as those in the English Bills. Owing to the working of the Scottish private Bills procedure, there has been a delay of a day or two, and I now propose to have the Scottish Bills and English Bills considered by the same Committee. As I have already pointed out, the House has given a Second Reading to the Bills, and the only question which arises now is the question of their committal.

Mr. BUCHANAN

I wish to put two points to the right hon. Gentleman. First, is he certain that Scottish objectors will have the same right of appearance by counsel and otherwise, on these Bills, as other objectors? When the original proposals were before us, there was some dubiety on that point. The second point is, that there is some anxiety among Scottish Members lest there should be no Scottish representation on the Committee which considers these Bills. If we can get any assurance that the question of Scottish representation will be considered, and if the rights of Scottish objectors are secured, I have no objection.

The CHAIRMAN of WAYS and MEANS

In regard to the hon. Member's first point about the rights of objectors, those rights cannot possibly be denied to them. These are separate Bills and may be objected to from Scotland or from anywhere else if the petitioner has a locus. As regards Scottish representation on the Committee, that is no affair of mine.

Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY

Is it not a great pity that these Bills cannot be sent to a Scottish Parliament at Edinburgh?

Question put, and agreed to.

Order [12th March] that the London, Midland, and Scottish Railway (Road Transport, Scotland) Bill, and the London and North Eastern Railway (Road Transport, Scotland) Bill be committed, read and discharged; Bills committed to the Joint Committee on Railway (Road Transport) Bills."

Message to the Lords to acquaint them therewith.

Ordered, That all Petitions in favour of or against the London, Midland, and Scottish Railway (Road Transport, Scotland) Bill and the London and North Eastern Railway (Road Transport, Scotland) Bill, respectively, presented on or before the 30th day of March, 1928, be referred to the Committee; that the Petitioners praying to be heard against the Bills by themselves, their Counsel, Agents, or witnesses, be heard, and Counsel be heard in support of the Bills:

Ordered, That it be an Instruction to the Committee that they have power, if they think fit, to consolidate the London, Midland, and Scottish Railway (Road Transport) Bill and the London, Midland, and Scottish Railway (Road Transport, Scotland) Bill into one Bill, and to consolidate the London and North Eastern Railway (Road Transport) Bill and the London and North Eastern Railway (Road Transport, Scotland) Bill into one Bill.