HC Deb 15 March 1928 vol 214 cc2105-10
45. Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY

asked the Prime Minister whether, seeing that some two years ago he undertook to provide an opportunity to discuss the Estimates of the three fighting Services as a whole and together, so that the allocation of expenditure and the coordination of the three Services, with consequential economies, could be examined, he will say when he proposes to give time for such discussion?


As I have repeatedly stated, the Government would welcome a discussion on the question of defence as a whole, but this is a matter for arrangement through the usual channels.

Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHY

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman if he realises that we have only 20 Supply days and that the Opposition have the greatest difficulty in discussing the increased number of Ministries that have been set up; and can he not give a special day for the discussion of this very important matter?


If it is a matter of such importance and the Opposition have not availed themselves of their opportunity for discussing it, I hope they will do so.

Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY

Is the Prime Minister not aware that the promise which he gave was given to the hon. and gallant Member for Fareham (Sir J. Davidson) and to other hon. Members on his own side of the House? I am about the only Member on this side of the House who has been pressing for this discussion.


I must ask the hon. and gallant Member to use his influence with his own party.

Commander BELLAIRS

Is the Prime Minister aware that there are a great many Conservative Members who want this discussion to take place? Before the War we used to have a discussion on the Committee of Defence Vote, and now we have three fighting Services to deal with instead of two.


Cannot the Prime Minister arrange with some of the Members who have been successful in the ballot for a discussion of this subject?


May I ask the Prime Minister if he will state the business for next week?


On Monday, a Debate will take place on the Report of the Board of Inquiry appointed to investigate certain statements affecting civil servants. The Report and Third Reading of the Rating and Valuation Bill and of the Rating (Scotland) (Amendment) Bill will also be taken, and, if time permits, other Orders on the Paper.

On Tuesday, the Report stage of the Army and Air Estimates.

On Thursday, the Report stage of the Navy Estimates and Civil Excess Vote, and Ways and Means Report.


Arising out of the business for Monday, the Prime Minister is probably aware that the Debate will take place on a Motion that we are handing in to-day, asking for an inquiry into all the circumstances connected with what is known as the Zinovieff letter. May I ask, further, if the right hon. Gentleman can give the date on which the Chancellor of the Exchequer will open the Budget; and, also, if the date has been fixed for the Second Reading of the Representation of the People (Equal Franchise) Bill, and what time it

is proposed to give for the Second Reading?


With regard to the last question, we propose to give one day, and to take it on Thursday, 29th March. The date of the Budget will be Tuesday, 24th April.

Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY

I have been sending messages through the usual channels but they do not seem to have arrived. May I inquire what business it is intended to take to-night, in case the Motion in the name of the Prime Minister is passed?


It is only to ensure getting the Navy Votes—nothing else—except, of course, the formal Ways and Means Resolution, which has to be moved after that.

Motion made, and Question put, That the Proceedings on Government Business be exempted, at this day's Sitting, from the provisions of the Standing Order (Sittings of the House)."—[The Prime Minister.]

The House divided: Ayes, 225: Noes, 123.

Division No. 38.] AYES. [3.51 p.m.
Albery, Irving James Carver, Major W. H. Ganzoni, Sir John
Alexander, E. E. (Leyton) Cautley, Sir Henry S. Gates, Percy
Allen, J. Sandeman (L'pool,W.Derby) Cazalet, Captain Victor A. Gault, Lieut-Col. Andrew Hamilton
Amery, Rt. Hon. Leopold C. M. S. Cecil, Rt. Hon Sir Evelyn (Aston) Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John
Applin, Colonel R. V. K. Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N. (Ladywood) Glyn, Major R. G. C.
Apsley, Lord Charteris, Brigadier-General J. Goff, Sir Park
Ashley, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Wilfrid W. Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston Spencer Grattan-Doyle, Sir N.
Baidwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley Churchman, Sir Arthur C. Gretton, Colonel Rt. Hon. John
Balniel, Lord Clayton, G. C. Grotrian, H. Brent
Barclay-Harvey, C. M. Cockerill, Brig.-General Sir George Guinness, Rt. Hon. Walter E.
Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P. H. Cooper, A. Duff Gunston, Captain D. W.
Beckett, Sir Gervase (Leeds, N.) Cope, Major William Hacking, Douglas H.
Beliairs, Commander Carlyon Couper, J. B. Hall, Lieut-Col, Sir F. (Dulwich)
Bennett, A. J. Courtauld, Major J. S. Hall, Capt. W. D'A. (Brecon & Rad.)
Berry, Sir George Crooke, J. Smedley (Deritend) Hamilton, Sir George
Betterton, Henry B. Crookshank, Col. C. de W. (Berwick) Hammersley. S. S.
Birchall, Major J. Dearman Crookshank,Cpt.H.(Lindsey,Gainsbro) Harmsworth, Hon. E. C. (Kent)
Bird, E. R. (Yorks, W. R., Skipton) Culverwell, C. T. (Bristol, West) Harrison, G. J. C.
Bird, Sir R. B. (Wolverhampton, W.) Curzon, Captain Viscount Harvey, G. (Lambeth, Kennington)
Blades, Sir George Rowland Davies, Dr. Vernon Harvey, Major S. E. (Devon, Totnes)
Biundell, F. N. Davison, Sir W. H. (Kensington, S.) Headlam, Lieut.-Colonel C. M.
Boothby, R. J. G. Drewe, C. Henderson, Capt. R. R.(Oxf'd, Henley)
Bourne, Captain Robert Croft. Eden, Captain Anthony Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel Arthur P.
Bowyer, Capt. G. E. W. Edmondson, Major A. J. Henn, Sir Sydney H.
Brass, Captain W. Edwards, John H. (Accrington) Hills, Major John Walter
Brassey, Sir Leonard Elliot, Major Walter E. Hilton, Cecil
Bridgeman, Rt. Hon. William Clive Ellis, R. G. Hoare, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir S. J. G.
Briogs, J. Harold England, Colonel A. Holbrook, Sir Arthur Richard
Briscoe, Richard George Erskine, Lord (Somerset, Weston-s.-M.) Hopkins, J. W. W.
Brittain, Sir Harry Erskine, James Malcolm Monteith Hopkinson, Sir A. (Eng. Universities)
Brocklebank, C. E. R. Evans, Captain A. (Cardiff, South) Hopkinson, A. (Lancaster, Mossley)
Brooke, Brigadier-General. C. R. I. Everard, W. Lindsay Howard-Bury, Colonel C. K.
Broun-Lindsay, Major H. Fairfax, Captain J. G. Hume, Sir G. H.
Brown, Brig.-Gen.H.C.(Berks. Newb'y) Falle, Sir Bertram G. Huntingfield, Lord
Buckingham, Sir H. Fanshawe, Captain G. D. Hurd, Percy A.
Burgoyne, Lieut.-Colonel Sir Alan Fielden, E. B. Hurst, Gerald B.
Burman, J. B. Forestier-Walker, Sir L. Iveagh, Countess of
Burton, Colonel H. W. Forrest, W. Jackson, Sir H. (Wandswerth, Cen'l)
Butler, Sir Geoffrey Foster, Sir Harry S. James, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. Cuthbert
Campbell, E. T. Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. Jephcott, A. R.
Joynson-Hicks, Rt. Hon. Sir William Nuttall, Ellis Stanley, Lord (Fylde)
Kennedy, A. R. (Preston). Oakley, T. Stott, Lieut.-Colonel W. H.
King, Commodore Henry Douglas Oman, Sir Charles William C. Streatfelid, Captain S. R.
Kinioch-Ceoks, Sir Clement Penny, Frederick George Sueter, Rear-Admiral Murray Fraser
Knox, Sir Alfred Percy, Lord Eustace (Hastingts) Sugden, Sir Wilfrid
Lloyd, Cyril E. (Dudley) Perkins, Colonel E. K. Thompson, Luke (Sunderland)
Locker-Lampson, G. (Wood Green) Peto, Sir Basil E. (Devon, Barnstaple) Thomson, Rt. Hon. Sir W. Mitchell-
Loder, J. de V. Peto, G. (Somerset, Frome) Titchfield, Major the Marquess of
Long, Major Eric Pownall, Sir Assheton Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement
Looker, Herbert William Preston, William Turton, Sir Edmund Russborough
Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Vere Raine, Sir Walter Vaughan-Morgan, Col. K. P.
Luce, Maj.-Gen. Sir Richard Harman Reid, Capt. Cunningham(Warrington) Waddington, R.
Lumiey, L. R. Remnant, Sir James Wallace, Captain D. E.
Lynn, Sir R. J. Rentoul, G. S. Ward, Col. J. (Stoke-upon-Trent)
MacAndrew, Major Charles Glen Rice, Sir Frederick Ward, Lt.-Col. A.L.(Kingston-on-Hull)
McDonnell, Colonel Hon. Angus Richardson, Sir P. W. (Sur'y, Ch'ts'y) Warrender, Sir Victor
Maclntyre, Ian Roberts, Sir Samuel (Hereford) Watson, Rt. Hon. W. (Carlisle)
McLean, Major A. Ropner, Major L. Watts, Dr. T.
Macnaghten, Hon. Sir Malcolm Russell, Alexander West- (Tynemouth) Wayland, Sir William A.
Macquisten, F. A. Salmon, Major I. Wells, S. R.
MacRobert, Alexander M. Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham) White, Lieut.-Col Sir G. Dairymple
Maitland, A. (Kent, Faversham) Sandeman, N. Stewart Williams, A. M. (Cornwall, Northern)
Maitland, Sir Arthur D. Steel- Sanderson, Sir Frank Williams, Com. C. (Devon, Torquay)
Makins, Brigadier-General E. Sassoon, Sir Philip Albert Gustave D. Williams, Herbert G. (Reading)
Malone, Major P. B. Savery, S. S. Winby, Colonel L. P.
Manningham-Buller, Sir Mervyn Shaw, R. G. (Yorks, W.R., Sowerby) Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George
Margesson, Captain D. Shaw, Lt.-Col. A.D. Mcl.(Renfrew,W.) Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl
Mason, Colonel Glyn K. Shepperson, E. W. Womersley, W. J.
Meller R. J. Skelton, A. N. Wood, B. C. (Somerset, Bridgwater)
Mitchell, S. (Lanark, Lanark) Smith, R. W. (Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, C.) Wood, Rt. Hon. Sir Kingsley
Mitchell, W. Foot (Saffron Walden) Smith-Carington, Neville W. Woodcock, Colonel H. C.
Mitchell, Sir W. Lane (Streatham) Smithers, Waldron Worthington-Evans, Rt. Hon. Sir L.
Morrison, H. (Wilts, Salisbury) Somerville, A. A. (Windsor)
Morrison-Bell, Sir Arthur Clive Spender-Clay, Colonel H. TELLERS FOR THE AYES.
Nall, Colonel Sir Joseph Sprot, Sir Alexander Mr. F. C. Thomson and Major Sir
Nicholson, O. (Westminster) Stanley, Lieut.-Colonel Rt. Hon. G.F. George Hennessy.
Nicholson,Col. Rt. Hn.W.G. (Ptrsf'ld.)
Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) Hardle, George D. Riley, Ben
Alexander, A. V. (Sheffield, Hillsbro') Hayday, Arthur Robinson, W. C. (Yorks, W.R., Eiland)
Ammon, Charles George Hayes, John Henry Rose, Frank H.
Baker, J. (Wolverhampton, Bilston) Henderson, Right Hon. A. (Burnley) Runciman, Hilda (Cornwall, St. Ives)
Baker, Walter Hirst, G. H. Runciman, Rt. Hon. Walter
Barker, G. (Monmouth, Abertillery) Hore-Belisha, Leslie Salter, Dr. Alfred
Barnes, A. Hudson. J. H. (Huddersfield) Sexton, James
Barr, J. Hutchison, Sir Robert (Montrose) Shaw, Rt. Hon. Thomas (Preston)
Batey, Joseph John, William (Rhondda, West) Shepherd, Arthur Lewis
Beckett, John (Gateshead) Johnston, Thomas (Dundee) Short, Alfred (Wednesbury)
Bondfleld, Margaret Jones, J. J. (West Ham, Slivertown) Sitch, Charles H.
Briant, Frank Jones, Morgan (Caerphiliy) Smillle, Robert
Broad, F. A. Kelly, W. T. Smith, Ben (Bermondsey, Rotherhithe)
Bromley, J. Kennedy, T. Smith, H. B. Lees (Kelghiey)
Brown, Ernest (Leith) Kenworthy, Lt.-Com. Hon. Joseph M. Smith, Rennie (Penistone)
Buchanan, G. Kirkwood, D Snell, Harry
Cape, Thomas Lansbury, George Snowden, Rt. Hon. Philip
Charieton, H. C. Lawrence, Susan Spoor, Rt. Hon. Benjamin Charles
Compton, Joseph Lawson, John James Stamford, T. W.
Connoliy, M. Lee, F. Stephen, Campbell
Cove, W. G. Lindley, F. W. Stewart, J. (St. Rollox)
Crawfurd, H. E. Livingstone, A. M. Strauss, E. A.
Dalton, Hugh Lowth, T. Sutton, J. E.
Davies, Ellis (Denbigh, Denbigh) Lunn, William Taylor, R. A.
Davies, Evan (Ebbw Vale) Mackinder, W. Thomas, Rt. Hon. James H. (Derby)
Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) MacLaren, Andrew Thomas, Sir Robert John (Anglesey)
Dennison, R. MacNeill-Weir, L. Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton, E.)
Evans, Capt. Ernest (Welsh Univer.) Macpherson, Rt. Hon. James I. Variey, Frank B.
Fenby, T. D. Malone, C. L'Estrange (N'thampton) Viant, S. P.
Gardner, J. P. March, S. Wallhead, Richard C.
Garro-Jones, Captain G. M. Maxton, James Walsh, Rt. Hon. Stephen
Gibbins, Joseph Montague, Frederick Webb, Rt. Hon. Sidney
Gosling, Harry Morris, R. H. Wedgwood, Rt. Hon. Joslah
Graham, Fergus (Cumberland, N.) Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) Williams, T. (York, Don Valley)
Graham, Rt. Hon. Wm. (Edin., Cent.) Murnin, H. Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow)
Greenwood, A. (Nelson and Colne) Owen, Major G. Windsor, Walter
Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) Palin, John Henry Wright, W.
Griffith, F. Kingsley Paling, W. Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton)
Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool) Parkinson, John Allen (Wigan)
Groves, T. Pethick-Lawrence, F. W. TELLERS FOR THE NOES.
Grundy, T. W. Ponsonby, Arthur Mr. Charles Edwards and Mr. Whiteley.
Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) Potts, John S.
Hamilton, Sir R.(Orkney & Shetland) Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring)