HC Deb 05 July 1928 vol 219 cc1633-47
Mr. CHAMBERLAIN

I beg to move, in page 8, line 26, at the end, to insert the words: and, in relation to any corrections in respect of totals of values made under the said provisions, Sections forty-one and forty-four of the principal Act shall apply as they apply in relation to alterations in such totals of values made in consequence of decisions on appeals. This Amendment has been introduced in order to deal with a point raised by the London County Council, and it is intended to take the place of the Amendment which appears next on the Paper in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for West Fulham (Sir C. Cobb) to insert the words: Provided that if an assessment committee make any correction in the totals of values the provisions of Sections forty-one and forty-four of the principal Act shall apply to such correction as if the correction were an alteration in the valuation list within the meaning of those sections. The details of the values of the various parishes in London are communicated to the London County Council and the London County Council, in turn, communicates them to the various bodies concerned. Any alteration in those details is accordingly communicated to the London County Council. In the Second Schedule to the Bill we are applying to London certain provisions of the Rating and Valuation Act. One of these deals with the correction of clerical errors and provides that an assessment committee may correct any clerical or arithmetical error in a valuation list, but there is no provision there that the alteration in the total value of the parish, which would be brought about by such correction, is-to be communicated to the London County Council. The object of the Amendment is to bring any correction of that kind into line with the existing practice in regard to any other alterations in values. I may add that this Amendment has not only been agreed to by the London County Council but is also concurred in by the Metroplitan Boroughs.

Mr. HARRIS

I wish to thank the right hon. Gentleman for this concession which is made necessary because of a technical flaw in the Bill. I have no doubt that this provision was omitted unintentionally and I think I can say, as far as the London County Council are concerned, that they welcome its insertion.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. GREENWOOD

I beg to move, in page 8, to leave out from the first word "Act," in line 27, to the end of line 28.

This Amendment has been put down in order to seek enlightenment on the actual wording of this Sub-section, which at present reads: In this Act, and in any Act passed after the passing of this Act in relation to London. This seems to be a case of legislating prospectively. These words would appear to limit the definition of "rating authority" in any future legislation of this kind to the description in this Subsection.

Mr. GILLETT

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman how he satisfies himself that he secures uniformity of assessment between these different authorities. I know that there has been legislation recently, but in the old days in London it was recognised that the assessment authority in one borough might have a tendency to make the assessment rather high, while in another borough the tendency would be to make it rather low. How does the Minister propose to get uniformity and justice under the scheme which is proposed?

The DEPUTY-CHAIRMAN

I am not sure that the hon. Member can raise this point on the Amendment now before the Committee, which merely deals with the question of whether we should or should not leave out the words and in any Act passed after the passing of this Act in relation to London.

Mr. GILLETT

The point is that under this Sub-section these definitions are to be made permanent. However, I can raise the matter on the Question of the Clause standing part of the Bill.

Sir K. WOOD

I am sorry that I cannot, on this Amendment, deal with the question raised by the hon. Member for Finsbury (Mr. Gillett). On the point as to the use of the words "any Act passed after the passing of this Act," it is quite natural that a query should be raised as to why we should be providing for an Act which is not on the Statute Book. The reason is that we are here dealing with questions of the rating authority, the rating area and the assessment area. The idea of the draftsman is to secure one definition for all these rating Measures and so avoid that confusion and complexity that constantly arise if you have varying definitions. It would he very greatly for the convenience of people who have to interpret the law that Parliamentary recognition should be given to definitions of this kind. It is not a matter that is vital to the Bill, but the people who are drafting the Bill are very anxious that it should be included for the reasons I have given.

Mr. GREENWOOD

What it really means is that so long as this Bill, when it is an Act, stands on the Statute Book, for all time, this Parliament not being able to modify it, as regards the Inner Temple and the Middle Temple, the Sub-Treasurer and the Under-Treasurer thereof respectively are the rating authority, whatever Parliament may say, or do, or think to the contrary.

Sir K. WOOD

No.

Mr. GREENWOOD

I think it is so, and it is a novel method of legislation. In this Bill it is legitimate to lay down what certain expressions which are being used in it shall mean, but to go on to say that these expressions are to mean this and this in any Act that is passed after this Measure becomes law, is unreasonable. I see no purpose in putting in these words. For the purposes of this Bill, it is perfectly legitimate to define rating authorities and so on in London, but surely it is not reasonable in this Bill to define in perpetuity, for all future Acts of Parliament relating to London, what the rating authority and area and the assessment area shall be.

Mr. HARRIS

London was left out of the Rating and Valuation Act of 1925 owing to the pressure of time. It was not possible to bring London into the general scheme owing to the necessity of meeting opposition in the rural areas, which made London's position exceptional. Therefore, the position of rating in London, where we have the Revenue officers assisting us, is different from the position in the rest of the country. As I understand it, the reason why these words are put in is that it is assumed that London will be brought into line as regards assessment and valuation with the rest of the country. If I am not right, perhaps the right hon. Gentleman will correct me. It seems curious that, as regards London, this special reference to possible future legislation should be inserted. One of our difficulties is the immense variation of assessments throughout the county of London, and we have always desired uniformity, because the difference of standards has pressed most unfairly on a great number of ratepayers. I assume that the reason why these words are inserted in this Clause is that the Government intend to bring London into line with the rest of the country, or the rest of the country into line with London.

Sir HENRY SLESSER

I understood that the right hon. Gentleman the Parliamentary Secretary was about to tell us of some other ease where similar words have been used, and, if so, it would help us to come to a conclusion. If these are new words and a new method of drafting, I think we should require more serious consideration of them.

Sir K. WOOD

If you do not have these words in you will have to put into every Act of Parliament these definitions over and over again, and it is with the intention of avoiding that that the draftsman suggests these words. The scheme will not collapse if these words are not included, but, as I say, they are put in to avoid putting into every Act all the definitions which are set out in this Clause. It is not a matter which will wreck the Government in any way, and it is purely a matter of convenience, but if hon. Members strongly object to these words, my right hon. Friend would not desire to insist on them.

Sir H. SLESSER

I gather that this is a new method, and I would like to draw attention to these words. Particularly am I emboldened to do so, because the right hon. Gentleman tells his colleagues that the Government would not be wrecked on this question in any case, and, therefore, they will have an open mind, so that we can proceed to deal with the question on its merits. As I understand it, we now have this position, that we are dealing with a new device. Instead of the ordinary definition Clause stating that in relation to London the expression "rating authority" means so and so, we have these words: In this Act and in any Act passed after the passing of this Act in relation to London. My first comment on that is that it does not even limit the phrase to Acts dealing with rating. You may have an Act dealing with quite a different matter altogether in which the words "rating authority" may for some reason become material, but it may not be an Act dealing with rating at all. Therefore, it seems an unfortunate form of drafting, and it ought to be confined to the subject matter of this Bill. Although Parliament can in future alter the law, for no Act binds a Parliament of the future, if stands that unless there is a special Act to the contrary, wherever the words "rating authority" occur, they may mean this. Is it a very desirable thing that on a question of drafting we should give a definition in an Act and then go on to say: and in any Act passed after the passing of this Act"? It seems to me rather a clumsy and undesirable form of drafting, and it is an extraordinary thing that with all the years of experience of drafting that the competent draftsmen who prepare these Bills have, this is a new—[Interruption.] Do I understand that the right hon. Gentleman is unable to give us any precedent?

Sir K. WOOD

I do not know one way or the other.

Sir H. SLESSER

If, served as he is with excellent information on all points, the right hon. Gentleman does not know one way or the other, I think the Committee may fairly assume that there is no precedent, for if there were, I am sure we should have heard of it. I think it is a bad form of drafting, and I submit that it would be very much better if we confined the definition to the Act with which we are dealing and did not try prospectively to attach it to laws which are yet unborn. [Interruption.] If the right hon. Gentleman has found a precedent, as I said at the beginning, it will modify one's views very considerably. Perhaps he will now tell me in what connection there is a precedent, because we are rather nervous of his precedents. I remember Clause 4 of the Rating Bill and how he misled the hon. and learned Member for Gillingham (Sir G. Hohler), who had no difficulty in showing that the case he cited was dealing with a quite different matter.

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN

The fact that my right hon. Friend and I were unable at the moment to give a precedent for these words in the Bill is, I think, a measure of the importance which we attach to them. My right hon. Friend has said that they did not originate with us; it was not an idea of ours, but a suggestion of the Parliamentary draftsman, founded upon his own experience, which, as the hon. and learned Gentleman has said, extends over many years, in order to avoid certain difficulties which had been met with in the past. I am quite at a loss to understand why the hon. and learned Gentleman should think that it would be a convenience to confine the meaning of these terms to rating Acts. Surely it would be more necessary, if you admit the necessity at all of laying down a standard definition, that it should apply to all Acts relating to London in which the words might occur, otherwise you might easily have a confusion between the meaning of the term in one Act and its meaning in another Act. Therefore, this really says that unless otherwise stated in any given Act after this, these words always have the same meaning.

I am glad to find that the hon. and learned Gentleman rests his assent or otherwise to this proposal entirely upon the question of whether there is a precedent. He is really a good, old-time Tory. "As it was in the beginning," so it shall be hereafter. As long as we can find a precedent, he is quite satisfied. I am delighted. If the hon. and learned Gentleman will consult the Interpretation Act of 1889, he will find that Section 16 begins with the words: In this Act. and in every Act passed after the passing of this Act the following expressions shall, unless the contrary intention appears, have the meanings thereby respectively assigned to them, namely"— and it gives a series of expressions which are defined. I hope that hon. and learned member is satisfied.

6.0 p.m.

Sir H. SLESSER

Not at all. The purpose of an Interpretation Act is to say that words used shall be understood in that connection in the Interpretation Act, but that is quite a different thing from the question whether a particular Act shall apply a particular expression to all other Acts. An Interpretation Act is not dealing with a specific definition, but with matters of general definition, like plural or singular, masculine or feminine, and, of course, an Interpretation Act must carry its definitions forward, or obviously it would not interpret. I was asking for some Act other than the Interpretation Act, which simply carries forward general definitions. I want some Act which carries forward a specific definition like "rating authority," I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman will agree that no such definition has ever been found. We are doing something new; the question remains whether we are not doing something bad. In my view, while it is legitimate for the Interpretation Act to carry forward a definition, it is not legitimate for a specific Act to carry forward such a definition as "rating authority."

Mr. ELLIS

If the hon. and learned Gentleman wants to take this definition out of this Bill perhaps he would be satisfied if it were Inserted in the Interpretation Act.

Sir H. SLESSER

No—I would not.

Mr. KINGSLEY GRIFFITH

The precedent of the Interpretation Act is useless for this purpose, because everyone knows that for certain definitions they have to go to that Act. One is anxious, in drafting a Bill like this, to save the trouble of those who have to consult the law. If you are to do that, it is much better in any future Act to say, if necessary, that the expression "rating authority" bears the same meaning as in some other Act. If that is done, one knows where to look, but, instead of doing that, here you are still having legislation by reference, but the reference is not given, and one will have to remember the Act to which to go in order to find out the meaning of the phrase. It is good for some of us that the law should be obscure, but, in the interests of the general public, the Measure should be made clear, and the Minister will be well advised to accept the Amendment.

Sir GERALD HOHLER

I am bound to support my hon. and learned Friend the Member for South-East Leeds (Sir H. Slesser). I agree with him that the Interpretation Act has nothing whatever to do with it. That Act is a compendious Measure which deals with a number of phrases, and says that the meaning of so-and-so is in such-and-such Act of Parliament. It is for purposes of interpretation only and applies to existing Acts. Here, however, we have a new Measure. I thought it right, out of loyalty to my hon. and learned Friend, to support him so far, but whether I

shall support him in the Lobby is another question.

Question put, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Clause."

The Committee divided: Ayes, 199; Noes, 131.

Division No. 250.] AYES. [6.5 p.m.
Agg-Gardner, Rt. Hon. Sir James T. Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge)
Alexander, E. E. (Leyton) Gadie, Lieut.-Colonel Anthony Nicholson, Col. Rt. Hn. W. G. (Ptrsf'ld.)
Alexander, Sir Wm. (Glasgow, Cent'l) Gaibraith, J. F. W. Nield, Rt. Hon. Sir Herbert
Allen, Sir J. Sandeman Ganzonl, Sir John Oakley, T.
Applin, Colonel R. V. K. Gates, Percy O'Neill, Major Rt. Hon. Hugh
Ashley, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Wilfrid W. Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John Penny, Frederick George
Astbury, Lieut.-Commander F. W. Grace, John Perkins, Colonel E. K.
Atkinson, C. Gretton, Colonel Rt. Hon. John Perring, Sir William George
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley Gunston, Captain D. W. Peto, Sir Basil E. (Devon, Barnstaple)
Balfour, George (Hampstead) Hacking, Douglas H. Philipson, Mabel
Balnlel, Lord Hall, Lieut.-Cot. Sir F. (Dulwich) Pilditch, Sir Philip
Barclay-Harvey, C. M. Hanbury, C. Preston, William
Bonn, Sir A. S. (Plymouth, Drake) Harrison, G. J. C. Price, Major C. W. M.
Bennett, A. J. Hartington, Marquess of Raine, Sir Walter
Bentinck, Lord Henry Cavendish Harvey, Major S. E. (Devon, Totnes) Remer, J. R.
Bethel, A. Haslam, Henry C. Rodd, Rt. Hon. Sir James Rennell
Betterton, Henry B. Headlam, Lieut.-Colonel C. M. Ropner, Major L.
Bird, E. R. (Yorks, W. R., Skipton) Henderson, Capt. R. R. (Oxf'd, Henley) Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth)
Bourne, Captain Robert Croft Henn, Sir Sydney H. Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham)
Bowater, Col. Sir T. Vanslttart Hennessy, Major Sir G. R. J. Sandeman, N. Stewart
Brass, Captain W. Hilton, Cecil Sanders, Sir Robert A.
Briscoe, Richard George Hoare, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir S. J. G. Sanderson, Sir Frank
Brittain, Sir Harry Hohler, Sir Gerald Fitzroy Sandon, Lord
Brooke, Brigadier-General C. R. I. Holbrook, Sir Arthur Richard Sassoon, Sir Philip Albert Gustave D.
Broun-Lindsay, Major H. Hopkins, J. W. W. Sheffield, Sir Berkeley
Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Berks, Newb'y) Hopkinson, Sir A. (Eng. Universities) Shepperson, E. W.
Buchan, John Horne, Rt. Hon. Sir Robert S. Skelton, A. N.
Buckingham, Sir H. Howard-Bury, Colonel C. K. Smith, R. W. (Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, C.)
Bullock, Captain M. Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.) Smithers, Waldron
Burman, J. B. Hudson, R. S. (Cumberl'nd, Whiteh'n) Spender-Clay, Colonel H.
Butler, Sir Geoffrey Hume, Sir G. H. Sprot, Sir Alexander
Butt, Sir Alfred Hurd, Percy A. Stanley, Lieut.-Colonel Rt. Hon. G. F.
Cadogan, Major Hon. Edward Hurst, Gerald B. Stanley, Hon. O. F. G. (Westm'eland)
Cautley, Sir Henry S. Hutchison, Sir G. A. Clark Steel, Major Samuel Strang
Cayzer, Sir C. (Chester, City) Inskip, Sir Thomas Walker H. Streatfield, Captain S. R.
Cazalet, Captain Victor A. Iveagh, Countess of Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)
Cecil, Rt. Hon. Sir Evelyn (Aston) Jackson, Sir H. (Wandsworth, Cen'l) Sueter, Rear-Admiral Murray Fraser
Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N. (Ladywood) Jephcott, A. R. Sugden, Sir Wilfrid
Charteris, Brigadier-General J. Kennedy, A. R. (Preston) Tasker, R. Inigo.
Chilcott, Sir Warden King, Commodore Henry Douglas Templeton, W. P.
Churchman, Sir Arthur C. Lamb, J. O. Thorn, Lt.-Col. J. G. (Dumbarton)
Clarry, Reginald George Lane Fox, Col. Rt. Hon. George R. Thomson, Rt. Hon. Sir W. Mitchell-
Cobb, Sir Cyril Lloyd, Cyril E. (Dudley) Tinne, J. A.
Cochrane, Commander Hon. A. D. Locker-Lampson, Rt. Hon. Godfrey Titchfield, Major the Marquess of
Cockerill, Brig.-General Sir George Loder, J. de V. Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement
Cohen, Major J. Brunei Looker, Herbert William Waddington, R.
Cope, Major Sir William Lougher, Lewis Ward, Lt.-Col. A. L. (Kingston-on-Hull)
Couper, J. B. Lowe, Sir Francis William Warner, Brigadier-General W. W.
Courthope, Colonel Sir G. L. Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Vere Warrender, Sir Victor
Craig, Sir Ernest (Chester, Crewe) Luce, Maj.-Gen. Sir Richard Harman Watson, Rt. Hon. W. (Carlisle)
Crooke, J. Smedley (Deritend) Lynn, Sir R. J. Wayland, Sir William A.
Crookshank, Col. C. de W. (Berwick) MucAndrew, Major Charles Glen White, Lieut.-Col. Sir G. Dairymple
Crookshank, Cpt. H. (Lindsey, Gainsbro) Macdonald, Capt. P. D. (I. of W.) Williams, A. M. (Cornwall, Northern)
Davidson, Rt. Hon. J. (Hertford) McDonnell, Colonel Hon. Angus Williams, Com, C. (Devon, Torquay)
Dean, Arthur Wellesley McLean, Major A. Williams, Herbert G. (Reading)
Dixey, A. C. Macmillan, Captain H. Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George
Dixon, Captain Rt. Hon. Herbert MacRobert, Alexander M. Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl
Edmondson, Major A. J. Manningham-Buller, Sir Mervyn Withers, John James
Ellis, R. G. Margesson, Captain D. Womersley, W. J.
Erskine, Lord (Somerset, Weston-s.-M.) Marriott, Sir J. A. R. Wood, E. (Chest'r, Stalyb'dge & Hyde)
Erskine, James Malcolm Monteith Meller, R. J. Wood, Rt. Hon. Sir Kingsley
Everard, W. Lindsay Mline, J. S. Wardlaw Wragg, Herbert
Fairfax, Captain J. G. Mitchell, S. (Lanark, Lanark) Yerburgh, Major Robert D. T.
Falle, Sir Bertram G. Mitchell, W. Foot (Saffron Walden)
Fermoy, Lord Moles, Rt. Hon. Thomas TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Fielden, E. B. Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. B. M. Captain Bowyerand Captain Wallace.
Ford, Sir P. J. Moore, Lieut.-Colonel T. C. R. (Ayr)
Fraser, Captain tan Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter)
NOES.
Adamson, Rt. Hon. W. (Fife, West) Hamilton, Sir R. (Orkney & Shetland) Riley, Ben
Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) Hardie, George D. Ritson, J.
Ammon, Charles George Harney, E. A. Robinson, W. C. (Yorks, W. R., Elland)
Attlee, Clement Richard Harris, Percy A. Saklatvala, Shapurji
Baker, J. (Wolverhampton, Bliston) Hartshorn, Rt. Hon. Vernon Salter, Dr. Alfred
Barker, G. (Monmouth, Abertillery) Hayday, Arthur Scrymgeour, E.
Barnes, A. Hayes, John Henry Scurr, John
Barr, J. Henderson, Right Hon. A. (Burnley) Sexton, James
Batey, Joseph Henderson, T. (Glasgow) Shepherd, Arthur Lewis
Bondfield, Margaret Hirst, G. H. Shiels, Dr. Drummond
Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. Hirst, W. (Bradford, South) Shinwell, E.
Briant, Frank Hutchison, Sir Robert (Montrose) Short, Alfred (Wednesbury)
Broad, F. A. Jenkins, W. (Glamorgan, Neath) Sinclair Major Sir A. (Caithness)
Bromfield, William John, William (Rhondda, West) Sitch, Charles, H.
Bromley, J. Johnston, Thomas (Dundee) Slesser, Sir Henry H.
Brown, Ernest (Leith) Jones, J. J. (West Ham, Silvertown) Smillie, Robert
Buchanan, G. Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) Smith, H. B. Lees (Keighley)
Buxton, Rt. Hon. Noel Jones, T. I. Mardy (Pontypridd) Smith, Rennle (Penistone)
Charleton, H. C. Kelly, W. T. Stamford, T. W.
Cluse, W. S. Kennedy, T. Stephen, Campbell
Clynes, Rt. Hon. John R. Kenworthy, Lt.-Com. Hon. Joseph M. Stewart, J. (St. Rollox)
Connolly, M. Kirkwood, D. Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton, E.)
Cove, W. G. Lawrence, Susan Thorne, W. (West Ham, Plaistow)
Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities) Lawson, John James Thurtle, Ernest
Dalton, Hugh Lee, F. Tinker, John Joseph
Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) Lindley, F. W. Tomlinson, R. P.
Day, Harry Livingstone, A. M. Trevelyan, Rt. Hon. C. P.
Dennison, R. Lunn William Varley, Frank B.
Duncan, C. MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J. R. (Aberavon) Viant, S. P.
Dunnico, H. Maclean, Neil (Glasgow, Govan) Watson, W. M. (Dunfermilne)
Edwards, C. (Monmouth, Bedwellty) Macpherson, Rt. Hon. James I. Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhonddas)
Fenby, T. D. Malone, C. L'Estrange (N'thampton) Wellock, Wilfred
Forrest, W. March, S. Westwood, J.
Gibbins, Joseph Maxton, James Wheatley, Rt. Hon. J.
Gillett, George M. Mitchell, E. Rosslyn (Paisley) Whiteley, W.
Gosling, Harry Montague, Frederick Wilkinson, Ellen C.
Greenall, T. Morris, R. H. Williams, C. P. (Denbigh, Wrexham)
Greenwood, A. (Nelson and Colne) Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) Williams, T. (York, Don Valley)
Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) Murnin, H. Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow)
Griffith, F. Kingsley Naylor, T. E. Windsor, Walter
Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool) Oliver, George Harold Wright, W.
Groves, T. Palin, John Henry
Grundy, T. W. Ponsonby, Arthur TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Hall, F. (York, W. R., Normanton) Potts, John S. Mr. Allen Parkinson and Mr. Paling.
Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) Richardson, R. (Houghton le-Spring)

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill."

Mr. GILLETT

May I take up my interrupted conversation with the right hon. Gentleman? I want to ask him two questions. I understand that the Revenue Officers would be responsible. Would he inform me whether there is one Revenue Officer at the head of those who are responsible for the whole of the County of London, or whether it will mean that one officer has perhaps two or three divisions under his care. Will the whole question come before one man, or two, or three men, so that the point which I raised will be considered? The other point on which I wanted to ask a question is this. I understand the

Revenue Officers will have a say in the first general assessment, but that in the following years the Revenue Officers will have no say whatever in regard to the assessment. Will he tell me the position in regard to future years?

Sir K. WOOD

In London, the position is different from other parts of the country. The Revenue Officer comes under the Inland Revenue authority. The duties of the Revenue Officer and his subordinates and the areas in which they will work will necessarily be arranged by that Department.

Question put, "That the Clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill."

The Committee divided: Ayes, 223; Noes, 114.

Division No. 251.] AYES. [6.15 p.m.
Agg-Gardner, Rt. Hon. Sir James T. Astbury, Lieut.-Commander F. W. Bonn, Sir A. S. (Plymouth, Drake)
Alexander, E. E. (Leyton) Astor, Viscountess Bennett, A. J.
Alexander, Sir Wm. (Glasgow, Cent'l) Atkinson, C. Bentinck, Lord Henry Cavendish-
Allen, Sir J. Sandeman Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley Bethel, A.
Amery, Rt. Hon. Leopold C. M. S. Balfour, George (Hampstead) Betterton, Henry B.
Applin, Colonel R. V. K. Balniel, Lord Bird, E. R. (Yorks, W. R. Skipton)
Ashley, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Wilfrid W. Barclay-Harvey, C. M. Bourne, Captain Robert Croft
Bowater, Col. Sir T. Vansittart Hamilton, Sir R. (Orkney & Shetland) Percy, Lord Eustace (Hastings)
Boyd Carpenter, Major Sir A. B. Hanbury, C. Perring, Sir William George
Brats, Captain W. Harney, E. A. Peto, Sir Basil E. (Devon, Barnstaple)
Briant, Frank Harris, Percy A. Philipson, Mabel
Briscoe, Richard George Harrison, G. J. C. Pilditch, Sir Philip
Brittain, Sir Harry Hartington, Marquess of Preston, William
Brooke, Brigadier-General C. R. I. Harvey, Major S. E. (Devon, Totnes) Price, Major C. W. M.
Broun-Lindsay, Major H. Haslam, Henry C. Raine, Sir Walter
Brown, Ernest (Leith) Headlam, Lieut.-Colonel C. M. Reid, D. D. (County Down)
Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Berks, Newb'y) Henderson, Capt. R. R. (Oxf'd, Henley) Remer, J. R.
Buchan, John Henn, Sir Sydney H. Rhys, Hon. C. A. U.
Buckingham, Sir H. Hennessy, Major Sir G. R. J. Rodd, Rt. Hon. Sir James Rennell
Bullock, Captain M. Hilton, Cecil Ropner, Major L.
Burman, J. B. Hoare, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir S. J. G. Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth)
Butler, Sir Geoffrey Hohler, Sir Gerald Fitzroy Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham)
Butt, Sir Alfred Holbrook, Sir Arthur Richard Sandeman, N. Stewart
Cadogan, Major Hon. Edward Hopkins, J. W. W. Sanders, Sir Robert A.
Cautley, Sir Henry S. Hopkinson, Sir A. (Eng. Universities) Sanderson, Sir Frank
Cayzer, Sir C. (Chester, City) Horne, Rt. Hon. Sir Robert S. Sandon, Lord
Cazalet, Captain Victor A. Howard-Bury, Colonel C. K. Sassoon, Sir Philip Albert Gustave D.
Cecil, Rt. Hon. Sir Evelyn (Aston) Hudson, R. S. (Cumberl'nd, Whiteh'n) Sheffield, Sir Berkeley
Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N. (Ladywood) Hume, Sir G. H. Shepperson, E. W.
Charterls, Brigadier-General J. Hurd, Percy A. Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir John
Chilcott, Sir Warden Hurst, Gerald B. Sinclair, Major Sir A. (Caithness)
Churchman, Sir Arthur C. Hutchison, Sir G. A. Clark Skelton, A. N.
Clarry, Reginald George Hutchison, Sir Robert (Montrose) Smith, R. W. (Aberd'n & Klnc'dlne, C.)
Cobb, Sir Cyril Inskip, Sir Thomas Walker H. Smithers, Waldron
Cochrane, Commander Hon. A. D. Iveagh, Countess of Spender-Clay, Colonel H.
Cockerill, Brig.-General Sir George Jackson, Sir H. (Wandsworth, Cen'l) Sprot, Sir Alexander
Cohen, Major J. Brunei Jephcott, A. R. Stanley, Lieut.-Colonel Rt. Hon. G. F.
Cope, Major Sir William Kennedy, A. R. (Preston) Stanley, Hon. O. F. G. (Westm'eland)
Couper, J. B. King, Commodore Henry Douglas Steel, Major Samuel Strang
Courthope, Colonel Sir G. L. Lamb, J. O. Streatfeild, Captain S. R.
Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities) Lane Fox, Col. Rt. Hon. George R. Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)
Craig, Sir Ernest (Chester, Crewe) Livingstone, A. M. Sueter, Rear-Admiral Murray Fraser
Crooke, J. Smedley (Deritend) Lloyd, Cyril E. (Dudley) Sugden, Sir Wilfred
Crookshank, Col. C. de W. (Berwick) Locker-Lampson, Rt. Hon. Godfrey Tasker, R. Inigo.
Crookshank, Cpt. H. (Lindsey, Gainsbro) Loder, J. de V. Templeton, W. P.
Davidson, Rt. Hon. J. (Hertford) Looker, Herbert William Thorn, Lt.-Col. J. G. (Dumbarton)
Davison, Sir W. H. (Kensington, S.) Lougher, Lewis Thomson, Rt. Hon. Sir W. Mitchell-
Dean, Arthur Wellesley Lowe, Sir Francis William Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton, E.)
Dixey, A. C. Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Vere Tinne, J. A.
Dixon, Captain Rt. Hon. Herbert Luce, Maj.-Gen. Sir Richard Harman Titchfield, Major the Marquess of
Edmondson, Major A. J. Lynn, Sir R. J. Tomlinson, R. P.
Ellis, R. G. MacAndrow, Major Charles Glen Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement
Erskine, Lord (Somerset, Weston-s.-M.) McDonnell, Colonel Hon. Angus Waddington, R.
Erskine, James Malcolm Monteith Macintyre, Ian Ward, Lt.-Col. A. L. (Kingston-on-Hull)-
Everard, W. Lindsay McLean, Major A. Warner, Brigadier-General W. W.
Fairfax, Captain J. G. Macmillan, Captain H. Warrender, Sir Victor
Falle, Sir Bertram G. Macphereon, Rt. Hon. James I. Watson, Rt. Hon. W. (Carlisle)
Fenby, T. D. Mac Robert, Alexander M. Wayland, Sir William A.
Fermoy, Lord Manningham-Buller, Sir Mervyn White, Lieut.-Col. Sir G. Dairymple
Fielden, E. B. Idargesson, Captain D. Williams, A. M. (Cornwall, Northern)
Ford, Sir P. J. Marriott, Sir J. A. R. Williams, Com. C. (Devon, Torquay)
Forrest, W. Meller, R. J. Williams, C. P. (Denbigh, Wrexham)
Fraser, Captain Ian Milne, J. S. Wardlaw- Williams, Herbert G. (Reading)
Fremantle, Lt.-Col. Francis E. Mitchell, S. (Lanark, Lanark) Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George
Gadie, Lieut.-Col. Anthony Mitchell, W. Foot (Saffron Walden) Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl
Gaibraith, J. F. W. Moles, Rt. Hon. Thomas Withers, John James
Ganzonl, Sir John Montell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. B. M. Womersley, W. J.
Gates, Percy Moore, Lieut.-Colonel T. C. R. (Ayr) Wood, E. (Chest'r. Stalyb'ge & Hyde).
Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John Morris, R. H. Wood, Rt. Hon. Sir Kingsley
Glyn, Major R. G. C. Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) Wragg, Herbert
Grace, John Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge) Yerburgh, Major Robert D. T.
Gretton, Colonel Rt. Hon. John Nicholson, Col. Ht. Hn. W. G. (Ptrsl'ld.)
Griffith, F. Kingsley Meld, Rt. Hon. Sir Herbert TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Gunston, Captain D. W. Oakley, T. Captain Bowyer and Captain Wallace.
Hacking, Douglas H. O'Neill, Major Rt. Hon. Hugh
Hall, Lieut.-Col. Sir F. (Dulwich) Penny, Frederick George
NOES.
Adamson, Rt. Hon. W. (Fife, West) Bromfield, William Day, Harry
Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) Bromley, J. Dennison, R.
Ammon, Charles George Buchanan, G. Duncan, C.
Attlee, Clement Richard Buxton, Rt. Hon. Noel Dunnico, H.
Baker, J. (Wolverhampton, Bilston) Charleton, H. C. Edwards, C. (Monmouth, Bedwellty)
Barker, G. (Monmouth, Abertillery) Close, W. S. Gibbins, Joseph
Barr, J. Clynes, Right Hon. John R. Gillett, George M.
Batey, Joseph Connolly, M. Gosling, Harry
Bondfield, Margaret Cove, W. G. Graham, Rt. Hon. Wm, (Edin., Cent.)
Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. Dalton, Hugh Greenall, T.
Broad, F. A. Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) Greenwood, A. (Nelson and Colne)
Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) Lunn, William Short, Alfred (Wednesbury)
Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool) MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J. R. (Aberavon) Sitch, Charles H.
Groves, T. Maclean, Neil (Glasgow, Govan) Slesser, Sir Henry H.
Grundy, T. W. Malone, C. L'Estrange (N'thampton) Smillie, Robert
Hall, F. (York, W. R., Normanton) March, S. Smith, H. B. Lees (Keighley)
Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) Maxton, James Smith, Rennie (Penistone)
Hardie, George D. Mitchell, E. Rosslyn (Paisley) Stamford, T. W.
Hartshorn, Rt. Hon. Vernon Montague, Frederick Stephen, Campbell
Hayday, Arthur Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) Stewart, J. (St. Rollox)
Hayes, John Henry Murnin, H. Thorne, W. (West Ham. Plaistow)
Henderson, Right Hon. A. (Burnley) Naylor, T. E. Thurtle, Ernest
Henderson, T. (Glasgow) Oliver, George Harold Tinker, John Joseph
Hirst, G. H. Palin, John Henry Trevelyan, Rt. Hon. C. P.
Hirst, W. (Bradford, South) Paling, W. Varley, Frank B.
Jenkins, W. (Glamorgan, Neath) Parkinson, John Allen (Wigan) Viant, S. P.
John, William (Rhondda, West) Ponsonby, Arthur Watson, W. M. (Dunfermline)
Johnston, Thomas (Dundee) Potts, John S. Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda)
Jones, J. J. (West Ham, Silvertown) Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) Wellock, Wilfred
Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) Riley, Ben Westwood, J.
Jones, T. I. Mardy (Pontypridd) Ritson, J. Wheatley, Rt. Hon. J.
Kelly, W. T. Robinson, W. C. (Yorks, W. R., Elland) Wilkinson, Ellen C.
Kennedy, T. Salter, Dr. Alfred Williams, T. (York, Don Valley)
Kenworthy, Lt.-Com. Hon. Joseph M. Scrymgeour, E. Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow)
Kirkwood, D. Scurr, John Windsor, Walter
Lawrence, Susan Sexton, James Wright, W.
Lawson, John James Shepherd, Arthur Lewis
Lee, F. Shiels, Dr. Drummond TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Lindley, F. W. Shinwell, E. Mr. A. Barnes and Mr. Whiteley.