HC Deb 04 July 1928 vol 219 cc1361-4
23. Mr. LINDLEY

asked the Minister of Labour whether his attention has been called to the fact that miners in the Rotherham and Parkgate and Rawmarsh areas who go down the mine expecting to work, but for reasons beyond their control are not allowed to work, are being refused unemployment benefit; and, seeing that such miners are unemployed through no fault of their own and in circumstances that justify the payment of unemployed benefit for the days in question, what steps he proposes to take to secure to them their rights under the Unemployment Insurance Acts?

Sir A. STEEL-MAITLAND

The Umpire, whose decision on claims to benefit is final, has held in a number of cases that a miner who descends the pit and proceeds to his working-place is not unemployed even though he does no work and receives no wages. In accordance with this principle, the Insurance; Officer disallowed the claims to which the hon. Member refers, and I understand that appeals to the Court of Referees are pending. I have no power to intervene.

Mr. LINDLEY

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise the serious nature of the injustice that is being done to these men? He is penalising men who are anxious to work, who are actually trying to get work, and who are unemployed through no fault of their own.

Sir A. STEEL-MAITLAND

The hon. Member will realise that I am not penalising them. It is simply that the law as it stands is such as I have told the hon. Member, and I have no power to interfere with it unless by introducing legislation. If the hon. Member wishes, I can communicate with the Secretary for Mines to see if he can bring the matter before the Mining Association and other bodies in order to find means for preventing a misunderstanding of this kind as far as possible.

Mr. T. WILLIAMS

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in almost every mining area colliery companies have what is called the marking system; that is, men go to the colliery every day, and descend the pit in the hope of getting work. Some do, but other do not. Is is fair that those who go to the bottom of the pit, but for whom no work is provided, should be deprived of their unemployment benefit?

Sir A. STEEL-MAITLAND

It is not a question whether I think so or not. As far as the law is concerned, I cannot help myself. It seems to me a case where it is really hard on the men concerned, and if there is any need for fresh legislation, I will be glad to consider the case.

Mr. MARDY JONES

The statement of the Minister of Labour is rather serious. Are we to understand that miners who present themselves for work and are informed by the management that there is no work for them, who go back to their homes without having drawn any wages at all, are not to be allowed to record these as idle days when applying for unemployment benefit under the Act?

Sir A. STEEL-MAITLAND

If the hon. Member will look, the law is not as regards any person simply presenting himself for work, but as regards miners who go underground. It is a question of the legal definition of the word "employment" or "unemployment" in such cases. It is not a question of whether or not it is a hard case, but of what the law is at the moment and whether steps can be taken to amend it.

Mr. PALING

Is it not a question of the Regulations that are being sent out rather than of the law itself? In view of that, is it not possible for the right hon. Gentleman to issue fresh Regulations which will obviate this difficulty?

Sir A. STEEL-MAITLAND

I will gladly go into any question of Regulations with any hon. Members opposite who wish it, but I can assure them that it not a question of Regulations, but of the legal interpretation of the law.

Several HON. MEMBERS rose

——

Mr. SPEAKER

The Minister has said that he has no power in the matter. We cannot pursue it any further.

Mr. SHINWELL

On that point, I wish to ask a question.

Mr. LINDLEY

I desire to ask the right hon. Gentleman——

Mr. MARDY JONES

On a point of Order. In view of the fact that so many thousands of miners are involved in this issue, cannot we get a reply from the Government?

Mr. SPEAKER

No point of Order arises.

Mr. KIRKWOOD

It is a downright disgrace; that is what it is.