§ Mr. RAMSAY MacDONALD (by Private Notice)asked the Home Secretary whether it is correct that Sir William Horwood will shortly relinquish his appointment as Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police; and whether he can make any statement on the subject?
§ Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKSYes, Sir. Brigadier-General Sir William Horwood intimated to me in February of this year his intention of retiring from the appointment of Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police in the late autumn on attaining the age of 60. I have since been taking steps to find a successor. 983 I am glad to be able to inform the House that His Majesty the King has been pleased to approve, on my recommendation, of the appointment of General The Viscount Byng of Vimy to succeed Sir William Horwood.
§ Mr. MONTAGUEMay we know, if an important question of policy such as is involved in this matter cannot be debated in this House; and should the House not be told why the military rather than the police are called upon to fill a post of this kind, before the appointment is made?
§ Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKSOf course, the question of my action in recommending anybody, can always be debated in this House—
§ Mr. HARDIEAfter the appointment.
§ Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKSI am responsible for the appointment, and my conduct can be called in question by putting the Vote for my Department down for discussion.
§ Mr. MONTAGUEIs it the settled policy of the Government to go to the Army rather than to the police force, in filling such an appointment as this?
§ Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKSThe settled policy of the Government is now, and always has been, to get the very best men they can get.
§ Mr. THURTLECan the right hon. Gentleman say why, in view of the fact that the conduct of Sir William Horwood has been impugned in connection with the recent inquiry—
§ Mr. THURTLE—why has it been found necessary to make this announcement before the Report of the Commission has been made public?
§ Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKSThere has been, as I understand it, no point raised as to the conduct of Sir William Horwood, but as to the conduct of two individual members of the police force. That inquiry had nothing whatever to do with Sir William Horwood's announcement to myself, in February, that he wished to retire, and I had been for some time, long before the Savidge Inquiry began, considering who to appoint in his place.
§ Mr. LANSBURYWill Lord Byng be entitled to receive another pension at the end of his period of service?
§ Mr. SPEAKERThis is not the time to raise that point.
§ Mr. LANSBURYThe right hon. Gentleman has made the announcement about this appointment, and surely I am entitled to ask about the terms on which this Noble Lord is going to carry out the appointment. He has already received a big public grant.
§ Mr. SHINWELLWhat is the age of Lord Byng?
§ Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKSSixty-five.
§ Mr. HARDIEBefore this appointment was made, were the Cabinet consulted, and why was the matter not brought to the House of Commons, which ought to be the basis of all these appointments?
§ Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKSThis is not an appointment for which the Cabinet are responsible. It is the responsibility of the Secretary of State to give advice to His Majesty the King. Upon that advice, His Majesty approved this appointment. I may be allowed to say, and it will interest the House to know, that General Lord Byng hesitated a very great deal before accepting this position, and it is not the acceptance of an office merely but the acceptance of a very stern call to duty.
§ Mr. LANSBURYDo we understand the right hon. Gentleman correctly, that Sir William Horwood has retired because he has reached the age limit of 60, and, if so, why has the Tight hon. Gentleman appointed someone of 65?
§ Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKSSir William Horwood was appointed on an appointment which lasted until the age of 60. It was open to him to apply to me to extend that period, and in the early part of this year he intimated to me that he did not wish it to be extended.
§ Mr. LANSBURYAre we to understand that the proper age of retirement from this position is 60 years, and that a man who wants to serve longer must get an extension from the Home Secretary? I want to know why the right hon. Gentleman appoints a man five years older? 985 Is there not a man in the Police Force capable of doing the job?
§ Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKSI am perfectly certain that, knowing the Police Force as I do, this appointment will be welcomed; and there is no man that I know who, from his career and talents, is so well adapted to the post as Lord Byng.
§ Lieut.-Colonel HENEAGEHas the right hon. Gentleman any information as to the average age of the Front Opposition Bench?
§ Mr. GARDNERIs the ability of the senior officers of the Metropolitan Police so poor that they cannot find a successor to the gentleman who is retiring, without going outside the Force?
§ Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKSThe hon. Member is making suggestions in regard to the senior officers of the police. All I can say in reply, is that, knowing these senior officers of the police, and the responsibility being on my shoulders, I am of opinion that Lord Byng will make the best Chief Commissioner that I could possibly get.
§ Captain GARRO-JONESMay I ask whether Sir Archibald Bodkin will follow the example of Sir William Horwood?
§ Mr. MACLEANSince the Home Secretary has made an announcement of this character to-day, will he now state what are the terms of service which were offered to Lord Byng, and which he accepted, and which will operate during his period of service?
§ Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKSThe only condition that he made was that he should retire the moment that he felt his faculties were unequal to the post, and at any time with 24 hours' notice if I thought that he was unsuitable.
§ Mr. MACLEANBut that does not give us the full terms. It is not a question of the limits of service, but the remuneration that is going to be paid for this particular office. I am asking whether there is any pension attached to it at any time that Lord Byng wants to retire?
§ Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKSThe question of pension has been asked, and Mr. Speaker rules that it is not germane.
§ Mr. MACLEANWhen a statement is made in this House as to a new appoint 986 ment that practically comes under the scope of the Civil Service, it is in order, surely, for any Member to inquire as to the terms of remuneration and the period of service; that comes within the scope, I think, of the terms of any reply that may be made. I am asking what are the terms of remuneration that were offered to Lord Byng prior to his acceptance, including pension.
§ Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKSThe House will be amused to hear—
§ Mr. MACLEANI am not at all amused.
§ Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKS—that no terms were offered to him, and that Lord Byng made no stipulation of any kind as to the amount of his salary and pension.
§ Mr. MONTAGUEMay I ask, for my guidance, which is the most appropriate way in which I can raise this important question?
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe question could most appropriately be raised on a Supply Vote on the salary of the Home Secretary.
§ Later—
§ Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHYI beg to ask leave to move the Adjournment of the House for the purpose of discussing a definite matter of urgent public importance, namely,
The selection of Viscount Byng of Vimy as Chief Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police.
§ Mr. SPEAKERThat would not come within the definition of the Standing Order as to the Adjournment of the House.
§ Mr. MONTAGUEI beg to give notice that I intend to raise the question of the appointment of Lord Byng at the earliest possible moment on the Adjournment.