HC Deb 18 December 1928 vol 223 cc2795-8
36. Mr. GEORGE HALL

asked the Secretary for Mines if his attention has been called to the fact that, notwithstanding the benefit given to the South Wales coal-owners under the Government scheme of railway rates relief, they are asking the miners to concede reductions in their wages; and will the Government make the benefit payable to the coal-owners under the scheme conditional upon the present rate of wages being paid to the miners?

40. Mr. R. RICHARDSON

asked the Secretary for Mines if he proposes that any portion of the amount of the money to be given in relief of freights and rates will be earmarked to give an increase in wages to miners in view of the fact that up to the present sacrifices in wages and hours have been made by them to keep the present markets and to secure others?

The SECRETARY for MINES (Commodore Douglas King)

The policy of the Government was directed to the same end as the sacrifices mentioned by the hon. Member for Houghton-le-Spring, namely, a reduction in costs of production and delivery of coal for the benefit of the coal mining industry. My right hon. Friend, the Minister of Transport, stated on 12th December that the Government did not think it desirable or practicable to attempt to control the ultimate distribution of the benefit of the railway rates relief between the producers and the consumers. The division of the proceeds of the mining industry is settled by district wages agreements.

Mr. SHINWELL

If the coalowners, in addition to the relief which the Government provides for them, are demanding reductions in wages from the miners, will the Government do nothing to prevent it?

Commodore KING

The division of the proceeds in the mining industry is, as I have said, supplied by the District Wages agreements.

Mr. SHINWELL

Then what is the purpose of your scheme so far as the miners are concerned?

Commodore KING

The object is to try and revive the industry for the benefit of the miners and the coalowners.

Mr. PALING

Is the hon. and gallant Member aware that in some districts the coalowners avoid breaking the district agreements by attacking the base rates and so lower the wages of the miners. If this benefit is given in this way, why cannot the miners be assured that they are having their share?

Commodore KING

If there is a breach of any agreement, there is the independent chairman appointed to deal with it.

Mr. PALING

I do not say that there is a breach of the agreement, but that the coalowners are avoiding a breach of the agreement by attacking the base rates which are outside the agreement. They are not only taking this amount from the miners, but also reducing the wages they already receive.

Mr. RICHARDSON

Is the Secretary for Mines aware that many men who are working five days a week are in a worse position than those who are unemployed altogether, and that, if there is to be no advantage to these men from this relief, they will have to remain where they are? It would be of no help to them at all. I am sure the hon. and gallant Member—

Mr. SPEAKER

Will the hon. Member shorten his question?

Mr. RICHARDSON

Is the hon. and gallant Member aware that the amount given by way of relief of railway rates will not meet the losses, and that consequently the men will get nothing at all?

Commodore KING

No, Sir, the relief given is for the benefit of the whole industry and with the idea of reducing losses.

Mr. RICHARDSON

But the men will get none of it.

Mr. POTTS

Is the hon. and gallant Member aware that, as far as the local base rates are concerned, the independent chairman of whom he spoke has no jurisdiction whatever?

50. Mr. PALING

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will grant to water-borne export and bunker coal conveyed on the canals of this country the accelerated de-rating benefits as applied to railways from the 1st instant?

56. Brigadier-General BROOKE

asked the Minister of Transport whether, seeing that water-export and bunker coal is the only form of coal conveyance which does not benefit by anticipation of rate relief, he will reconsider his refusal to give equal treatment to this form of transport?

Colonel ASHLEY

I have been asked to reply to these questions. The Government do not see their way to anticipate the relief from local rates which will accrue to the canal authorities under the Local Government Bill as from the 1st October next.

Mr. PALING

Has the right hon. and gallant Gentleman received any representations from any of these canal companies and from a particular canal company in Yorkshire on which several collieries depend for the carriage of their coal. If they are to be put to this disadvantage as compared with the railway companies, it is going to affect deleteriously these collieries?

Colonel ASHLEY

I have received representations arid they were considered by the Government when they dealt with the proposal as to whether canals should be brought in.

Mr. HANNON

Does the right hon. and gallant Gentleman realise what it Means to a canal carrying coal down to a port in competition with a railway when the railway company has an advantage of 9d. per ton in the carriage of that; Coal?.

Mr. T. WILLIAMS

May I ask whether the Aire and Calder Canal Company does not convey much more coal for export and bunker than the railway company in that particular area; and should they not he considered?

Colonel ASHLEY

That aspect of the de-rating proposal has been before the House, and it has been decided by the House. I do not think the case of one particular canal company can he singled out.

Mr. PALING

Was not the purpose of de-rating, almost exclusively, to encourage the export of coal; and is not all the coal carried on this canal ex-elusively for export?

Colonel ASHLEY

Yes, and 99¾ per cent, of such coal does get the benefit.

Mr. PALING

If it is possible to give this relief to 99¾ per cent., why leave out this small company?

Colonel ASHLEY

Everything possible has been done to reduce freights on the public railways, and if you included one canal, you would probably have to include all, and the machinery would be very complicated.

Mr. ERNEST BROWN

In view of the right hon. and gallant Gentleman's reply and his treatment of shipping and canals, should not the Ministry of Transport be renamed "Railway House"?