HC Deb 17 April 1928 vol 216 cc149-53
Mr. HARDIE

I beg to move, in page 6, line 19, at the end, to insert the words: Provided that, before making; any such by-laws, the canal company shall consult the local authority empowered under the principal Act to grant petroleum spirit licences in the district in which the canal is situated. I move this Amendment with the object of getting some kind of control in regard to this question. I am pleading for the rights of any city or town through which a canal may pass to have some say, through the local authority, as to what is going to be done. If there is to be loading or unloading at any of these points, why should local control cease when dealing with petrol although that control applies to almost anything else? If the local authority gets this power, it does not mean that we are going to prohibit any form of transport. All the Amendment seeks to do is to place in the hands of the local authority the power to grant licences in the district in which the canal is situated. One can see the great danger, if this Amendment is not accepted, that is going to occur in regard to carrying petroleum or petroleum spirit on the canals, because they will be able to make any port a port of call even against the wishes of the local authority. It may interfere with the question of fire insurance at certain points. If a local authority has big buildings at a landing stage on a canal, they will be insured against fire, but, since the local authority does not store or handle petrol or petroleum, that risk will not be included in the policy. If, however, this Bill goes through as it is now, it will give powers to canal owners carrying petrol or petroleum to come and use any of these places, and, if a fire occurred, it would mean that, in the absence of insurance, the local authority would be the losers.

Mr. T. WILLIAMS

I beg to second the Amendment.

Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKS

I was hoping that the hon. Member for Westhoughton (Mr. Rhys Davies) would have risen to say that this also was an Amendment which ought not to be accepted, but, as he did not, it falls to my lot to do so. Clause 6 is simply a Clause to allow a canal company on whose canal petroleum barges are passing to make by-laws regulating the loading, conveyance and landing of petroleum-spirit in and upon the canal under their jurisdiction"; and it is quite obvious that, if petrol or petroleum is carried along a canal, it is desirable for the safety of the traffic on that canal that the canal company should have this power. This Amendment asks that, before making such by-laws, the canal company shall consult the Local authorities through whose areas the canal passes. A canal of any size, however, passes through the areas of a whole series of local authorities, and the result of the Amendment, if it were agreed to, would be that, before the canal company could make these most necessary by-laws, ft would have to obtain the consent of all the local authorities through whose areas the canal passed. I submit to the House that it would make it impossible to work this Clause. Moreover, Sub-section (2) provides that no by-law shall be confirmed by the Minister of Transport until they have been published in draft, and the local authorities will have the power, as soon as a by-law proposed by a canal company is published in draft, to go to the Minister of Transport and put their objections, if they have any, before him, and he will consider those objections before he confirms the by-law or otherwise. The local authorities, therefore, are amply secured; but this Amendment, on account of the very great difficulty that there would be in getting canal companies by-laws passed if only one small authority out of 20 or 30 declined to accept them, would make the whole of this provision for the safety of canal traffic of no avail. The amendment, therefore, is one which could not possibly

be accepted, and I hope the House will resist it.

Question put, "That those words be there inserted in the Bill."

The House divided: Ayes, 104; Noes, 206.

Division No. 79.] AYES. [10.10 p.m.
Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) Hirst, W. (Bradford, South) Scurr, John
Ammon, Charles George Hudson, J. H. (Huddersfield) Sexton, James
Baker, Walter Jenkins, W. (Glamorgan, Neath) Shepherd, Arthur Lewis
Batey, Joseph John, William (Rhondda, West) Shiels, Dr. Drummond
Bondfield, Margaret Johnston, Thomas (Dundee) Shinwell, E.
Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) Short, Alfred (Wednesbury)
Broad, F. A. Jones, T. I. Mardy (Pontypridd) Sitch, Charles H.
Bromley, J. Kelly, W. T. Smillie, Robert
Brown, James (Ayr and Bute) Kennedy, T. Smith, Ben (Bermondsey, Rotherhithe)
Buchanan, G. Kirkwood, D. Smith, Rennie (Penistone)
Cape, Thomas Lansbury, George Snell, Harry
Charleton, H. C. Lawrence, Susan Snowden, Rt. Hon. Philip
Cluse, W. S. Lawson, John James Stewart, J. (St. Rollox)
Clynes, Rt. Hon. John R. Lee, F. Sullivan, J.
Compton, Joseph Lindley, F. W. Sutton, J. E.
Connolly, M. Lowth, T. Thorne, W. (West Ham, Plaistow)
Dalton, Hugh Lunn, William Thurtle, Ernest
Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J.R.(Aberavon) Tinker, John Joseph
Dunnico, H. Maclean, Nell (Glasgow, Govan) Trevelyan, Rt. Hon. C. P.
Gibbins, Joseph Malone, C. L'Estrange (N'thampton) Viant, S. P.
Gillett, George M. Montague, Frederick Wallhead, Richard C.
Gosling, Harry Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) Watson, W. M. (Dunfermline)
Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) Murnin, H. Wellock, Wilfred
Greenall, T. Naylor, T. E. Welsh, J. C.
Greenwood, A. (Nelson and Colne) Oliver, George Harold Westwood, J.
Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) Palin, John Henry Whiteley, W.
Groves, T. Paling, W. Williams, David (Swansea, E.)
Grundy, T. W. Parkinson, John Allen (Wigan) Williams, T. (York, Don Valley)
Hall, F. (York., W.R., Normanton) Pethick-Lawrence, F. W. Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow)
Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) Ponsonby, Arthur Windsor, Watler
Hardie, George D. Potts, John S. Wright, W.
Hartshorn, Rt. Hon. Vernon Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton)
Hayday, Arthur Riley, Ben
Henderson, Right Hon. A. (Burnley) Ritson, J. TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Henderson, T. (Glasgow) Roberts, Rt. Hon. F. O.(W. Bromwich) Mr. Charles Edwards and Mr.
Hirst, G. H. Saklatvala, Shapurji A. Barnes.
NOES.
Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel Churchman, Sir Arthur C. Greene, W. P. Crawford
Agg-Gardner, Rt. Hon. Sir James T. Clarry, Reginald George Gretton, Colonel Rt. Hon. John
Applin, Colonel R. V. K. Clayton, G. C. Guinness, Rt. Hon. Walter E.
Astbury, Lieut.-Commander F. W. Cobb, Sir Cyril Gunston, Captain D. W.
Atkinson, C. Cochrane, Commander Hon. A. D. Hall, Lieut.-Col. Sir F. (Dulwich)
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley Collox, Major Wm. Philip Hamilton, Sir George
Balniel, Lord Cope, Major William Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry
Barclay-Harvey, C. M. Couper, J. B. Harrison, G. J. C.
Barnett, Major Sir Richard Courthope, Colonel Sir G. L. Hartington, Marquess of
Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P. H. Cowan, Sir Wm. Henry (Islington, N.) Harvey, Major S. E. (Devon, Totnes)
Benn, Sir A. S. (Plymouth, Drake) Crookshank, Cpt. H.(Lindsey, Gainsbro) Henderson, Lieut.-Col. Sir Vivian
Bennett, A. J. Cunliffe, Sir Herbert Heneage, Lieut.-Col. Arthur P.
Bethel, A. Dalkeith, Earl of Hennessy, Major Sir G. R. J.
Bird, E. R. (Yorks, W. R., Skipton) Davies, Maj. Geo. F. (Somerset, Yeovil) Hills, Major John Waller
Blades, Sir George Rowland Davies, Dr. Vernon Hilton, Cecil
Bourne, Captain Robert Croft Dawson, Sir Philip Holbrook, Sir Arthur Richard
Braithwaite, Major A. N. Drewe, C. Holt, Captain H. P.
Briggs, J. Harold Edmondson, Major A. J. Hope, Capt. A. O. J. (Warw'k, Nun.)
Brocklebank, C. E. R. Elliot, Major Walter E. Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.)
Brooke, Brigadier-General C. R. I. England, Colonel A. Hume, Sir G. H.
Brown, Col. D. C. (N'th'l'd., Hexham) Fanshawe, Captain G. D. Huntingfield, Lord
Brown,Brig.-Gen.H.C. (Berks, Newb'y) Fenby, T. D. Hurd, Percy A.
Brown, Ernest (Leith) Fielden, E. B. Hutchison, Sir Robert (Montrose)
Buckingham, Sir H. Ford, Sir P. J. Inskip, Sir Thomas Walker H.
Burgoyne, Lieut.-Colonel Sir Alan Forestier-Walker, Sir L. James, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. Cuthbert
Burman, J. B. Fraser, Captain Ian Jephcott, A. R.
Campbell, E. T. Frece, sir Walter de Jones, Sir G. W. H. (Stoke New'gton)
Carver, Major W. H. Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. Jones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth)
Cassels, J. D. Galbraith, J. F. W. Joynson-Hicks, Rt. Hon. Sir William
Cayzer, Sir C. (Chester, City) Ganzoni, Sir John Kindersley, Major G. M.
Cayzer, Maj. Sir Herbt. R. (Prtsmth. S.) Garro-Jones, Captain G. M. King, Commodore Henry Douglas
Cecil, Rt. Hon. Sir Evelyn (Aston) Goff, Sir Park Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement
Chadwick, Sir Robert Burton Gower, Sir Robert Knox, Sir Alfred
Chapman, Sir S. Graham, Fergus (Cumberland, N.) Lamb, J. O.
Christie, J. A. Greaves-Lord, Sir Walter Little, Dr. E. Graham
Long, Major Eric Price, Major C. W. M. Thompson, Rt. Hon. Sir W. Mitchell-
Looker, Herbert William Raine, Sir Walter Tinne, J. A.
Lougher, Lewis Rawson, Sir Cooper Titchfield, Major the Marquess of
Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Vers Raid, D. D. (County Down) Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement
Lynn, Sir Robert J. Rhys, Hon. C. A. U. Vaughan-Morgan, Col. K. P.
MacAndrew, Major Charles Glen Rice, Sir Frederick Waddington, R.
Macdonald, Sir Murdoch (Inverness) Richardson, Sir P. W.(Sur'y, Ch'ts'y) Wallace, Captain D. E.
Macdonald, Capt. P. O. (I. of W.) Robinson, Sir T. (Lancs., Stratford) Ward, Lt.-Col. A. L.(Kingston-on-Hull)
McDonnell, Colonel Hon. Angus Ropner, Major L. Warner, Brigadier-General W. W.
MacIntyre, Ian Runciman, Hilda (Cornwall, St. Ives) Warrender, Sir Victor
McLean, Major A. Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth) Waterhouse, Captain Charles
Macmillan, Captain H. Rye, F. G. Watson, Rt. Hon. W. (Carlisle)
Macnaghten, Hon. Sir Malcolm Salmon, Major I. Watts, Dr. T.
MacRobert, Alexander M. Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham) Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda)
Makins, Brigadier-General E. Samuel, Samuel (W'dsworth, Putney) Wells, S. R.
Manningham-Buller, Sir Mervyn Sandeman, N. Stewart White, Lieut.-Col. Sir G. Dairymple-
Margesson, Captain D. Sanders, Sir Robert A. Wiggins, William Martin
Mason, Colonel Glyn K. Sanderson, Sir Frank Williams, Com. C. (Devon, Torquay)
Mitchell, W. Foot (Saffron Walden) Sandon, Lord Williams, C. P. (Denbigh, Wrexham)
Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. B. M. Savery, S. S. Williams, Herbert G. (Reading)
Moore, Lieut.-Colonel T. C. R. (Ayr) Shaw, Lt.-Col. A. D. Mcl. (Renfrew, W.) Wilson, Sir C. H. (Leeds, Central)
Nelson, Sir Frank Sheffield, Sir Berkeley Wilson, R. R. (Stafford, Lichfield)
Neville, Sir Reginald J. Shepperson, E. W. Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George
Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) Simms, Dr. John M. (Co. Down) Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl
Nicholson, O. (Westminster) Smith-Carington, Neville W. Withers, John James
Nuttall, Ellis Somerville, A. A. (Windsor) Wolmer, Viscount
Oakley, T. Stanley, Lord (Fylde) Womersley, W. J.
Pennefather, Sir John Stanley, Hon. O. F. G. (Westm'eland) Wood, B. C. (Somerset, Bridgwater)
Penny, Frederick George Steel, Major Samuel Strang Wood, Rt. Hon. Sir Kingsley
Perkins, Colonel E. K. Storry-Deans, R. Wragg, Herbert
Perring, Sir William George Styles, Captain H. W. Yerburgh, Major Robert D. T.
Peto, G. (Somerset, Frome) Sugden, Sir Wilfrid
Pilcher, G. Tasker, R. Inigo TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Pownall, Sir Assheton Thom, Lt.-Col. J. G. (Dumbarton) Captain Viscount Curzon and
Preston, William Thompson, Luke (Sunderland) Captain Bowyer.

Bill read the Third time, and passed.

The UNDER-SECRETARY of STATE for the HOME DEPARTMENT (Lieut.-Colonel Sir Vivian Henderson)

I beg to move, in page 6, line 40, at the end, to insert the words: (6) Section forty of the Railway and Canal Traffic Act, 1888 (which makes provision as to the by-laws of canal companies), shall not aply to by-laws made under this Section. This is purely a drafting Amendment which has been put down in the interests of the Ministry of Transport, to ensure that the power of making by-laws under the Act of 1888 does not extend to this Bill.

Amendment agreed to.