HC Deb 05 April 1928 vol 215 cc2124-6
11. Mr. LANSBURY

asked the Minister of Health whether he will state the weight of stone which casuals are expected to break by any three boards of guardians who at present impose stone-breaking as a task?

The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the MINISTRY of HEALTH (Sir Kingsley Wood)

My right hon. Friend has no detailed information on this subject. As has been previously explained to the hon. Member, a task within the limits prescribed in the Casual Poor (Relief) Order, 1925, does not require to be reported to my right hon. Friend.

Mr. LANSBURY

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, in the answer he gave me the other day, he told me that 140 or more boards of guardians were imposing this task; and is he aware that I have made inquiries and cannot find; any hoard of guardians that is doing so? May I ask him to tell me of any three boards, or even any one board other than the Metropolitan Asylum Board?

Sir K. WOOD

I understand that we are to discuss this matter during the morning, when I shall be perfectly prepared to deal with it.

Mr. LANSBURY

I want this answer in order to discuss it; I cannot discuss it in this way. I want to know what boards of guardians are imposing this task.

Sir K. WOOD

I have already explained to the hon. Gentleman that it is not the duty of boards of guardians to report to my right hon. Friend, and, therefore, he does not know as a matter of fact. I may say, for the information of the hon. Gentleman, that, in regard to the 150 boards which he stated had imposed this task, the information came to the knowledge of my right hon. Friend through a general report of the inspectors, the subject of which was inquired into some time ago.

Mr. LANSBURY

Is not this House entitled to ask the Minister to make inquiries on a subject over which he has authority? I have asked a perfectly simple question: Will the right hon. Gentleman ask any three boards of guardians that, according to his inspectors' report, are imposing this task, whether it is a fact or not?

Sir K. WOOD

I am sorry that I cannot meet the hon. Gentleman as he suggests. The hon. Gentleman in his question does not ask whether I will make inquiries, but whether I will state the particular weight of stone, and as to that I have said that I have no particulars. It is not the duty of boards of guardians to report regarding it.

Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY

Is it not as hard to get information out of the right hon. Gentleman as out of a stone?

Miss LAWRENCE

Is the report to which the right hon. Gentleman refers a published report, and, if not, will he lay it on the Table of the House?

Sir K. WOOD

It was published some time ago.

Miss LAWRENCE

Will the right hon. Gentleman give the reference?

Sir K. WOOD

Certainly. I will try to find out what the number is before the Debate.

Captain GARRO-JONES

Does the right hon. Gentleman's answer mean that, once powers have been delegated to these boards of guardians, they pass for ever out of his authority, and will he not make any inquiries?

Sir K. WOOD

No, Sir; the hon. and gallant Member is quite misinformed.

Mr. KIRKWOOD

Arising from the original reply, it is evident that the right hon. Gentleman is not aware of what is behind this question as to the weight of stone broken. Has the right hon. Gentleman ever gone and seen this operation being performed, which is one of the most inhuman that is still in existence of the tasks given to prisoners in this country?

Mr. SPEAKER

That does not arise out of the question on the Paper.