§ 11. Mr. MACLEANasked the Secretary of State for Scotland the extent of, and number of sheep grazed on, the following sheep farms which are being taken away by the Forestry Commissioners for the purpose of afforestation: Morvich Club's grazing farm; Lunassa sheep farm; Ratagan home farm sheep grazing, Glensheil; Moyle sheep farm, Glenely; Eilanreach sheep farm; and Lubencorn sheep farm, Glenely?
§ Sir LEOLIN FORESTIER-WALKER (Forestry Commissioner)I have been asked to reply. The lands acquired by the Forestry Commission from Kintail Deer Forest include a portion of the Morvich grazings—
§ Mr. MACLEANWill the hon. Gentleman speak up, so that I can follow his reply?
§ Sir L. FORESTIER-WALKERThe lands acquired by the Forestry Commission from Kintail Deer Forset include a portion of the Morvich Grazings extending to approximately 1,000 acres. The number of sheep effeiring to that portion is not known, and it is not the present intention of the Commissioners to apply for resumption. Lienassie Farm has not been acquired. Ratagan Farm, including Moyle Hirsel, extends to 2,481 acres and the number of sheep grazed is 825. The acquisitions at Eilanreach include about 450 acres of scrub land from the sheep farm, which is also used for deer stalking. The number of sheep effeiring to this area is not known. The sheep grazed were in the former proprietor's hands and did not require to be taken over by the Commission. By Lubencorn sheep farm the hon. Member presumably refers to the area on the deer forset lands of Kintail, over which a privilege of grazing a variable number of sheep at a rate per head was given to the occupant of Luiban-Eorna by the previous proprietor. The lands were acquired by the Commission clear of grazing right and the particulars asked are not definitely known.
§ Mr. MACPHERSONIs the hon. Gentleman aware that in 1919 the Morvich farm to which he is referring was handed over to nine smallholders with a guarantee of security of tenure, and that their out-turn there is their main means of livelihood; and is it the policy of his Department to deprive those people of that means of livelihood?
§ Sir L. FORESTIER-WALKERIf the right hon. Gentleman will read my answer he will see that we state that it is not the present intention of the Commissioners to apply for resumption.
§ Mr. MACPHERSONDoes the right hon. Gentleman think that that answer will satisfy those men? Does not that answer show that there is no security of 1764 tenure for these men, that they have not got the security which was guaranteed to them in 1919? Is it the policy of the Commissioners to deprive those men of security of tenure?
§ Sir L. FORESTIER-WALKERI have said that at any rate it is not the present intention of the Commissioners to seek resumption. What the Commissioners may do in the future I cannot say.
§ Mr. MACPHERSONIn view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I give notice that I will raise this question on the Adjournment to-morrow night.
§ Mr. MACQUISTENIs the hon. Gentleman aware of the very strong feeling in the Highlands that there is sufficient land available for the planting of trees without trenching on the sheep farms and thus interfering with the livelihood of the shepherds and the supply of food? Will he assure us that it shall be the policy of the Commissioners that under no circumstances will they displace sheep farms if there is any other land available?
§ Mr. SPEAKERNotice should be given of that question.
§ Mr. MACLEANThe hon. Member says that it is not at present the policy of the Commissioners to seek resumption. Are we to understand that they reserve to themselves the right to break a guarantee which was given to the smallholders in 1919?
§ Mr. SPEAKERThat point can be dealt with to-morrow night.
§ Mr. MACLEANThis is my question, and I am asking for a reply to my question.
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe hon. Member was given the reply which the hon. Gentleman representing the Department is prepared to give now, and the matter can be pressed further to-morrow night.
§ Mr. MACLEANTo-morrow night the matter will probably come on after Eleven o'clock, and other business may not allow sufficient time for two speakers to take exception to the reply, and consequently I am asking for a reply to the question I have put down.
§ Mr. MACPHERSONIf there is no time to-morrow night, I will raise the question on Thursday.
§ 12. Mr. MACLEANasked the Secretary of State for Scotland the extent of the following deer forests, respectively: Kintail, Glen Lick, Invernetdale, Attadale, Belachassan, Arnisdale, Eilanreach and Glenshiel; if these deer forests have been planted by the Forestry Commissioners; and, if not, how many acres are still suitable for afforestation in each of these deer forests?
§ Sir L. FORESTIER-WALKERI have been asked to reply. According to the information available to the Board of Agriculture for Scotland and the Forestry Commission the areas of the deer forests referred to are as follow:
The Forestry Commission have acquired 6,324 acres from Kintail (including Glen Lichd), 750 acres from Dorisduan and Inverinate and 400 acres from Eilanreach; over 500 acres have been planted. In the absence of a detailed survey, the extent of afforestable land on the remaining areas cannot be stated.
Acres. Kintail (including Glen Lichd) 19,500 Dorisduan and Inverinate (Invernetdale) 22,000 Attadale 38,552 Arnisdale 8,000 Eilanreach 9,200 Glenshiel (including Belachassan) 30,055
§ Mr. MACLEANCan the hon. Gentleman tell us how much of that land, which the Forestry Commissioners have taken up, is available for small holdings; or is at present being used by smallholders?
§ Sir L. FORESTIER-WALKERObviously, that is a question which must be put down on the Paper. I cannot answer it off-hand.
§ Mr. MACLEANIs this not a question which follows from my previous question, and are not both of them linked together?
§ Major Sir ARCHIBALD SINCLAIRIs it the intention of the hon. Member's Department to carry out the survey, the absence of which he deplores in his answer?
§ Sir L. FORESTIER-WALKERThe survey is in preparation, but it is not complete.
§ Mr. MACLEANWill the hon. Gentleman inform the House whether the land which has been taken over for afforestation is land which at the present time is being used in part by smallholders; and whether it is not the case that there is plenty of land suitable for afforestation which is not being used by smallholders?
§ Sir L. FORESTIER-WALKERThe land which we are planting does not affect smallholders. It is land which is available at the moment for planting purposes. Of course, the question of small holdings will have to be considered. We naturally do not want to turn people off small holdings, and as far as I know we have not done so.
§ Mr. MACLEANAre you not turning off sheep farmers in order to afforest land which is at present being used for the purpose of sheep-grazing?
§ Sir L. FORESTIER-WALKERSome of the land may be used and turned off for grazing, but we rather believe that growing trees is more profitable than growing sheep.
§ Mr. MACLEANIs it not the case that Scotland is now being turned into a huge deer forest for pleasure, and that the raising of sheep is considered by the Government to be of less use to this country than the growing of trees?
§ 14. Mr. MACPHERSONasked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether the land appropriated by the Forestry Commission for afforestation at Morvich and Lubancorn, in Kintail, was land registered for small holdings; and how much of it is occupied by smallholders?
§ Sir L. FORESTIER-WALKERI have been asked to reply. The land acquired by the Forestry Commission at Morvich includes approximately 1,400 acres occupied by registered crofters, and, as I informed the right hon. Member on 17th November last, the Commissioners have no present intention of applying to the Land Court for resumption of this area. With regard to the land acquired at Luib-an-Eorn, the answer to the first part of the question is in the negative and to the second part is none.
§ Mr. MACPHERSONIs the hon. Gentleman aware that the Forestry Commissioners have actually driven the sheep off one farm, and that the occupant of that farm, who is really a smallholder, has no place at all on which to pasture his sheep?
§ Sir L. FORESTIER-WALKERI can only say that I am not aware of it.
§ Mr. MACPHERSONWill the hon. Member make himself aware of it, because this is creating great resentment against the Government and the officials concerned in that district?
§ Sir L. FORESTIER-WALKERI certainly will.
§ 60. Mr. MACPHERSONasked the hon. Member for Monmouth, as representing the Forestry Commissioners, if a representative of the Commission has recently visited the Kintail district of Ross-shire; and, if not, is it proposed to send one there forthwith, in view of the difficulties which have arisen in connection with the appropriation of valuable pastoral land for afforestation purposes?
§ Sir L. FORESTIER-WALKERThe Commissioners have an officer stationed in the district. The second part of the question does not therefore arise.
| — | Acreage. | Average grant per acre. | |||||||
| s. | d. | ||||||||
| 1923 | … | … | … | … | … | … | 14,238 | 50 | 7 |
| 1924 | … | … | … | … | … | … | 11,023 | 52 | 1 |
| 1925 | … | … | … | … | … | … | 11,455 | 51 | 7 |
| 1926 | … | … | … | … | … | … | 4,942 | 32 | 4 |
| 1927 | … | … | … | … | … | … | 7,388 | 32 | 5 |
| The number of acres purchased by the Commissioners for afforestation purposes and the average price paid per acre in each of the last five years is as follows:— | |||||||||
| Acreage. | Average price. | ||||||||
| — | Plantable | Total | If charged against plantabie land only. | Over all. | |||||
| s. | d. | s. | d. | ||||||
| 1923 | … | … | … | 6,704 | 6,704 | 57 | 6 | 57 | 6 |
| 1924 | … | … | … | 12,356 | 20,589 | 73 | 6 | 43 | 5 |
| 1925 | … | … | … | 24,835 | 47,560 | 69 | 9 | 36 | 3 |
| 1926 | … | … | … | 25,974 | 56,146 | 78 | 0 | 37 | 0 |
| 1927 | … | … | … | 19,454 | 22,823 | 80 | 0 | 70 | 0 |
§ Mr. MACPHERSONIs the hon. Gentleman aware that the conditions are so serious up there that the local officer cannot contend with them, and will he not see to it that his Department sends its senior officer or one of the Commissioners to study the question on the spot?
§ Sir L. FORESTIER-WALKEROne of our chief officers was there last week, and he reported the information that we now possess.