HC Deb 15 November 1927 vol 210 cc888-92
Colonel WEDGWOOD

I beg to move, in page 8, to leave out from the word "renters" in line 22, to the word "may" in line 25.

Of all Clauses in this Bill, and they are all difficult to understand, this Clause is the worst. I undertake that, except two of us, not a soul in the House can understand Clause 14, and it is necessary that they should understand it. Clause 14 is going to help the renter. Make that quite clear first. The renter is a man who must be put on the quota. The renter and producer are very often one, and for the purpose of this Clause we can treat them as one. The renter-producer who makes his films in America has got somehow to acquire his quota films. In this Clause, if he is a small man, he can come to terms with British producers. They can club together, and he will provide the foreign film and the British producer the 20 per cent, quota of films. They would club together and come to certain financial arrangements. They would be allowed to club the whole of their film acquisitions and if there are 20 per cent. British in the co-operative group they would be considered to have met the points of this Act. Of course, the same thing applies to renters. The Government are quite right in permitting the small renters to get together in order to pool their quota, and I want the House to observe, first of all, that it makes no earthly difference to the production of British films. British films are produced in exactly the same amount under this scheme as they would be if every single renter-producer had somehow to acquire British films. The 20 per cent, bought by renters as a whole are the same. What I am asking in this Amendment is that this grace granted to the small renter or small producer should be extended to all renters and all producers. They should all have power to pool.

In the original Bill when it was being produced there was a Clause in it which allowed the British producer renter to sell to his foreign competitors any films on quota. That is to say, he would naturally produce more than 20 per cent, of British stuff, and the surplus over 20 per cent, he was allowed to sell as quota to other renters or producers. In the original Bill I think it was knocked out. I do not see now why we should not extend the grace of Clause 14 to all renter producers. That surely could not effect the actual production of British films. It merely puts large producers in the same position as the small producers; they will be able to club together and buy for the purpose of the quota. The only objection I can see to this co-operation of the various firms is one that applies equally well to the small producer renter as to the large one, and that is, that the man who has command of the British films, either as producer or renter can naturally extract his own terms from the people who come in the combine. He can say, "I can supply the essential element of British films. I will combine with you and you will pay me something in order to come into the combine, and this will then meet the provisions of Clause 14 and provide the full quota of British films." That is the objection. I do not know whether it has happened already, but it certainly will happen. You will get the small British renter producer going into a ring with foreign producers. You cannot get him to go in when he has everything he needs, and other people want something from him. It is an objection which applies to the small producer. The Government accepted it in the case of the small producer and they might also accept it in the case of the large producer. The main point is that it makes no difference to the production of British films, and all we have to consider is which method is going to be most convenient for the trade as a whole and prevent the price of films being forced up owing to an artificial shortage?

Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTER

I was almost going to ask your ruling, Mr. Deputy-Speaker, as to whether this Amendment is not out of order because it is inconsistent with what we have already passed in Clause 13. In the previous Clause we have provided that each renter shall acquire his quota. The object of this Amendment is to provide that individual renters need not acquire the quota. My first objection is that it is inconsistent with the principle already decided in Clause 13, which is that each renter shall acquire his own quota.

Colonel WEDGWOOD

In that case the whole of this Clause is inconsistent.

Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTER

Clause 14 is drafted as a kind of mitigation of Clause 13, as it might be quite impossible for the small renter to comply with the quota. It is obvious that unless the renter deals with 12 films he would not be able to comply with the quota of 7½ per cent., and, therefore, there must be some relief granted in this Clause to those who will find it a physical impossibility to comply with the quota provision. Therefore, it becomes necessary to allow the small renter to make this combination. The strongest view was expressed in Committee against making the quota rights assignable. I admit that I had inserted a provision in the Bill that a maker-renter, who had more than his quota, might assign his surplus quota rights, but I withdrew the Clause in deference to the universally-expressed wish in Committee that no such right should be given and that all renters should be treated on an equality.

Colonel WEDGWOOD

May I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman would accept an Amendment which is on the Order Paper, to insert at the end of this Clause the words Provided that the Board of Trade shall not consent to such a combine where any of the parties to the combine have to make payments to other parties in the combine for the privilege of taking advantage of this section.

Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTER

I will deal with that point later. As I have said, there was a strongly expressed desire in Committee that the quota should be personal to the renter and should not be assignable. The Amendment says in different terms what the Committee upstairs unanimously rejected. It makes the quota assignable provided people come together into a combine for that sole purpose. Then the right hon. and gallant Gentleman is rather inconsistent, because yesterday he kept pressing me to put nothing into the Bill which would allow the renters to combine. He expressed great anxiety because there would be a combination of makers and renters—

Colonel WEDGWOOD

Vertical trusts.

Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTER

Vertical or horizontal. I appreciate the physical difference between the two, but the right hon. and gallant Gentleman was equally condemnatory of both classes of combines. To-day he has gone back on his appeal of yesterday and is asking us not only to permit but to encourage such trusts. For all these reasons, I see no good cause why we should vary the position in Clause 13. The right hon. and gallant Member has asked me to express an opinion on the Amendment standing in his name at the end of the Clause, which proposes that the Board of Trade should withhold its assent if any member of a syndicate formed for this purpose has paid a pecuniary consideration for joining the syndicate. All that I contemplate the Board of Trade will do is to satisfy itself that the renters are small renters or that there is one large renter and several small renters. On all other occasions the right hon. and gallant Gentleman has begged me not to put in restrictions which are unnecessary. I do not think it is a sound practice, in a case where people are permitted by this Bill to combine, to go into the whole of the trans- action, which may be a perfectly voluntary one, and obviously would be a voluntary transaction, and say that because they have agreed that there shall be some consideration we are not going to allow them to do what the Act permits because they have agreed that there shall be a monetary payment.

Colonel WEDGWOOD

The right hon. Gentleman realises that there will be payments for the assignment.

Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTER

There may be payments or there may not. If it suits the parties no doubt there will be payments. My answer to his proposal is that unless he can show good cause why we should put restrictions on these combines I do not think we should put such restrictions into the Bill.

Amendment negatived.