§ Mr. CLYNESWill the Prime Minister announce the business for next week?
§ The PRIME MINISTER (Mr. Baldwin)On Monday: Supply, Committee, Scottish Estimates.
Tuesday, Supply, Committee; Ministry of Transport Estimates.
Wednesday until 8.15 and Thursday, Committee stage of the Trade Disputes and Trade Unions Bill and, if time permit, other Orders on the Paper.
§ Mr. CLYNESWith regard to the business for Monday, may I ask the Prime Minister whether he is aware that the reports dealing with agriculture and health, affecting Scotland, are not available, and will not be available for Members on Monday. In the circumstances, will not that be a serious handicap in the discussion of these Estimates; and therefore, may I ask him whether he would consent to the continuance of the discussion on the Second Reading of the Trade Unions Bill on Monday? Before the Prime Minister replies to that question, may I also ask him to remember that out of a regular attendance of 500 Members, only 34 Members of all parties have been able to take part in the Debate and, on this side of the House, so far as the Labour party are concerned, there have been only 15 speakers during the discussion up to the present on the Trade Unions Bill?
§ The PRIME MINISTERWith regard to the business for Monday, as the right hon. Gentleman knows, that matter is not entirely within our province. The question of the Scottish Estimates was selected by the Liberal party and I do 1770 not see how I could, in fairness to them, alter the arrangement. With regard to asking for more time on the Second Reading of the Trade Disputes and Trade Unions Bill, I would make this observation. We have done our best to meet the desires of the party opposite. We have given for the Second Reading within three or four hours of four days. We had originally suggested taking two days, but we were asked to give four. We did our best last night to induce the Members who were successful in the Ballot for Private Members' Motions, to withdraw their claims, but in that we were not successful. We consider we have given the House ample time and, while it is true, I have no doubt, that many Members are desirous of speaking, I have not the same clear evidence that an equal number are desirous of listening.
§ Mr. CLYNESI hope that in due time and in the proper place we shall have an opportunity of offering some comment upon the argument with which the Prime Minister concluded his reply. May I put to him this fact; that when his party were in Opposition, in the days of the Home Rule Bill, they were given 10 days for the First and Second Readings of the Home Rule Bill; and considering how far-reaching the present Bill is, touching a far greater population than the population of the whole of Ireland, will he not consider giving more days than the four which have been granted?
§ The PRIME MINISTERI would say in answer to that question that I remember the facts perfectly well, but I do not think it would serve any useful purpose to argue the importance of the two Bills. That was before the War and since the War—it may be owing to the fact that speeches, as I think, are rather shorter than they used to be—so far as my memory serves me, I cannot recall any Bill of all the important Bills I remember, in which the Second Reading discussion has been as long as in this case. Although I am quite aware that there has been no agreement—as the right hon. Gentleman knows—about this term, yet it was quite well known what the time was going to be, and we received no request that any alteration should be made until the right hon. Gentleman was courteous enough to send me a note yesterday afternoon.
§ Mr. CLYNESArising out of another part of the answer of the Prime Minister in regard to the Committee stage of the Bill, may I ask him to consider the desirability of not taking the Committee stage until after next week, in view of the fact that it has already been announced by the Government that considerable amendment will have to take place on the initiative of the Government themselves, and that due time, therefore, should be allowed to His Majesty's Opposition to consider fairly those Amendments after they appear on the Order Paper?
§ The PRIME MINISTERI always have every desire to suit the convenience of the House in these important matters, but it is only fair to remember that whoever may desire to put down Amendments have had about a month in which to prepare their Amendments, and we are up against time on the one hand and against our own deliberate action on the other hand. We desired to take the Second Reading of the Bill before Easter, but I waived that question, very naturally, in response to the Leader of the Opposition, who had to go abroad, and I postponed the Second Reading till we all had hoped he would be able to be present to take part in the Debate. Most unfortunately, and to the regret of everybody in the House, the right hon. Gentleman has not been able to be in his place. But I am glad to think that, by publishing the Bill as I did before Easter, it has made it quite easy for those who desired to prepare Amendments to do so in ample time for Wednesday.
§ Mr. CLYNESIf it be true that Members have had about a month in which to prepare their Amendments what becomes of the argument that we did not know what was in this Bill until it was printed?
§ Mr. JOHNSTONIs the House to understand that the proposal to take Scottish business on Monday next, in the absence of the Reports which will enable that business to be properly discussed, is not at the instigation of the Government but of the Liberal party?
§ The PRIME MINISTERI must point out to the hon. Member, who seems to be, if I may say so, under a little confusion on this point, that it has nothing to do 1772 with us. When this day was asked for by one of the parties opposite whose turn it was, we had nothing to do but to give that day.
§ Mr. BUCHANANIn view of the fact that the reports on agriculture and health are necessary for a well-conducted debate on the Scottish Estimates, will the right hon. Gentleman consult with the Secretary of State for Scotland with a view to having those reports printed by Monday next?
§ The PRIME MINISTERLet me put this to hon. Members—I know there is a number of Members in the party opposite who come from Scotland—that nothing is easier than to ask for a Scottish debate when they get a day, and they have two days to the Liberals' one. The Liberals, undoubtedly, having asked for that Vote, have some particular subject which they desire to debate. It is probably not the subject which hon. Members of the Labour party wish to debate, otherwise they would have waited for the publication of the documents.
§ Mr. BUCHANANIt is true that the Liberal party asked for the day, but is the right hon. Gentleman aware that that party on one specific subject cannot keep the House going on a whole day? The point I want to put is this, that a number of Scottish Members, including some of his own supporters, will wish to take part in the debate on the other part of the day, and as agriculture is the most important and pressing point, cannot he consult with the Secretary of State for Scotland with a view to having the reports published on Monday?
§ The PRIME MINISTERI think I have explained the matter fully. As it stands, it is outside my power to do anything more. I can only suggest that in the interval between now and when the Labour party are able to put down the Scottish Vote for discussion, the hon. Member should consult with his friends across the Gangway.
§ Mr. TINKERReverting to the Trade Unions Bill, is the right hon. Gentleman aware that most of us have sat since Monday on these benches and have not had a chance of joining in this discussion, which is most important to us all? We do not trouble the House very much, but on this occasion I think we 1773 ought to have full opportunity, and I appeal to the right hon. Gentleman to grant us another day.
§ The PRIME MINISTERIn years past I have done the same thing. I have risen 20 times in one afternoon and never been called—it is a thing which happens to most of us—and, if I might say so, I think the less time we consume in debating these matters now, the more time there will be for hon. Members later.
§ Mr. T. WILLIAMSIs the right hon. Gentleman not aware that, notwithstanding the three days that have been
§ devoted to the Bill already, we are still waiting for a full explanation of the Bill from the Government Benches?
§ Mr. THURTLEMay we take it, in view of what the right hon. Gentleman has just said, that he has no intention on the Committee stage of applying the Closure in any ruthless fashion?
§
Motion made, and Question put,
That the Proceedings on the Trade Disputes and Trade Unions Bill have precedence this day of the Business of Supply."—[The Prime Minister.]
§ The House divided: Ayes, 289; Noes, 126.
1777| Division No. 105.] | AYES. | [3.47 p.m. |
| Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel | Cecil, Rt. Hon. Sir Evelyn (Aston) | Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John |
| Agg-Gardner, Rt. Hon. Sir James T. | Chadwick, Sir Robert Burton | Gower, Sir Robert |
| Albery, Irving James | Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N. (Ladywood) | Graham, Fergus (Cumberland, N.) |
| Alexander, E. E. (Leyton) | Chapman, Sir S. | Greene, W. P. Crawford |
| Allen, J. Sandeman (L'pool. W. Derby) | Charteris, Brigadier-General J. | Gretton, Colonel Rt. Hon. John |
| Allen, Lieut.-Col Sir William James | Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston Spencer | Grotrian, H. Brent |
| Amery, Rt. Hon. Leopold C. M. S. | Churchman, Sir Arthur C. | Guinness, Rt. Hon. Walter E. |
| Applin, Colonel R. V. K. | Clayton, G. C. | Hall, Lieut.-Col. Sir F. (Dulwich) |
| Apsley, Lord | Cobb, Sir Cyril | Hall, Capt. W. D'A. (Brecon & Rad.) |
| Ashley, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Wilfrid W. | Cochrane, Commander Hon. A. D. | Hammersley, S. S. |
| Astor, Viscountess | Cockerill, Brig.-General Sir G. K. | Hanbury, C. |
| Atholl, Duchess of | Cohen, Major J. Brunel | Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry |
| Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley | Colfox, Major Wm. Phillips | Harland, A. |
| A. Balniel, Lord | Cooper, A. Duff | Harrison, G. J. C. |
| Barclay, Harvey, C. M. | Cope, Major William | Hartington, Marquess of |
| Barnett, Major Sir Richard | Couper, J. B. | Harvey, G. (Lambeth, Kennington) |
| Barnston, Major Sir Harry | Craig, Ernest (Chester, Crewe) | Harvey, Major S. E. (Devon, Totnes) |
| Beckett, Sir Gervase (Leeds, N.) | Crawfurd, H. E. | Haslam, Henry C. |
| Bellairs, Commander Carlyon W. | Croft, Brigadier-General Sir H. | Hawke, John Anthony |
| Benn, Sir A. S. (Plymouth, Drake) | Crooke, J. Smedley (Deritend) | Headlam, Lieut.-Colonel C. M. |
| Bennett, A. J. | Crookshank, Col. C. de W. (Berwick) | Henderson, Capt. R. R. (Oxfd, Henley) |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry Cavendish. | Crookshank, Cpt. H. (Lindsey, Gainsbro) | Henderson, Lieut.-Col. V. L. (Bootle) |
| Berry, Sir George | Curzon, Captain Viscount | Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel Arthur P. |
| Bethel, A. | Dalkeith, Earl of | Hennessy, Major Sir G. R. J. |
| Betterton Henry B. | Davies, Ellis (Denbigh, Denbigh) | Herbert, S. (York, N. R., Scar. & Wh'by) |
| Birchall, Major J. Dearman | Davies, Maj. Geo. F. (Somerset,Yeovil) | Hills, Major John Waller |
| Bird, E. R. (Yorks, W. R., Skipton) | Davies, Sir Thomas (Cirencester) | Hilton, Cecil |
| Bird, Sir R. B. (Wolverhampton, W.) | Davies, Dr. Vernon | Hoare, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir S. J. G. |
| Blades, Sir George Rowland | Davison, Sir W. H. (Kensington, S.) | Hogg, Rt. Hon. Sir D. (St. Marylebone) |
| Blundell, F. N. | Dawson, Sir Philip | Holt, Captain H. P. |
| Boothby, R. J. G. | Dean, Arthur Wellesley | Hope, Sir Harry (Forfar) |
| Bourne, Captain Robert Croft | Drew. C. | Hopkins, J. W. W. |
| Bowater, Col. Sir T. Vansittart | Duckworth, John | Hopkinson, Sir A. (Eng. Universitites) |
| Bowyer, Captain G. E. W. | Eden, Captain Anthony | Hore-Belisha, Leslie |
| Braithwaite, Major A. N. | Edmondson, Major A. J. | Howard-Bury, Lieut.-Colonel C. K. |
| Brass, Captain W. | Edwards, J. Hugh (Accrington) | Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.) |
| Briant, Frank | Ellis, R. G. | Hudson, R. S. (Cumberl'nd, Whiteh'n) |
| Bridgeman, Rt. Hon. William Clive | England, Colonel A. | Hume, Sir G. H. |
| Briggs, J. Harold | Erskine, Lord (Somerset, Weston-s.-M.) | Hurd, Percy A. |
| Briscoe, Richard George | Erskine, James Malcolm Montelth | Hurst, Gerald B. |
| Brittain, Sir Harry | Evans, Capt. Ernest (Welsh Univer.) | Hutchison, Sir Robert (Montrose) |
| Brocklebank, C. E. R. | Everard, W. Lindsay | Iliffe, Sir Edward M. |
| Brooke, Brigadier-General C. R. I. | Fairfax, Captain J. G. | Inskip, Sir Thomas Walker H. |
| Broun-Lindsay, Major H. | Falle, Sir Bertram G. | Jacob, A. E. |
| Brown, Ernest (Leith) | Falls, Sir Charles F. | James, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. Cuthbert |
| Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Berks, Newb'y) | Fanshawe, Captain G. D. | Jephcott, A. R. |
| Buchan, John | Fenby, T. D. | Kennedy, A. R. (Preston) |
| Buckingham, Sir H. | Fermoy, Lord | Kidd, J. (Linllthgow) |
| Bull, Rt. Hon. Sir William James | Finburgh, S. | King, Captain Henry Douglas |
| Bullock, Captain M. | Ford, Sir P. J. | Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement |
| Burman, J. B. | Forestler-Walker, Sir L. | Knox, Sir Alfred |
| Butler, Sir Geoffrey | Foster, Sir Harry S. | Lamb, J. O. |
| Cadogan, Major Hon. Edward | Fraser, Captain Ian | Lane Fox, Col. Rt. Hon. George R |
| Campbell, E. T. | Frece, Sir Walter de | Lister, Cunliffe, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip |
| Carver, Major W. H. | Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. | Lloyd, Cyril E. (Dudley) |
| Cautley, Sir Henry S. | Ganzoni, Sir John | Locker-Lampson, G. (Wood Green) |
| Cayzer, Maj. Sir Herbt. R. (Prtsmth. S) | Gates, Percy | Loder, J. de V. |
| Cazalet, Captain Victor A. | Gault, Lieut.-Col. Andrew Hamilton | Looker, Herbert William |
| Lougher, Lewis | Power, Sir John Cecil | Thompson, Luke (Sunderland) |
| Lowe, Sir Francis William | Preston, William | Thomson, F. C. (Aberdeen south) |
| Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Vere | Price, Major C. W. M. | Thomson, Rt. Hon. Sir W. Mitchell. |
| Luce, Major-Gen. Sir Richard Harman | Radford, E. A. | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton, E.) |
| Lumley, L. R | Ralne, W | Tinne, J. A. |
| Lynn, Sir Robert J. | Ramsden, E. | Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement |
| MacAndrew, Major Charles Glen | Rawson, Sir Cooper | Turton, Sir Edmund Russborough |
| McDonnell, Colonel Hon. Angus | Remnant, Sir James | Vaughan-Morgan, Col. K. P. |
| Macmillan, Captain H. | Rentoul, G. S. | Waddington, R. |
| Macnaghten, Hon. Sir Malcolm | Rhys, Hon. C. A. U. | Ward, Lt.-Col. A. L. (Kingston-on-Hull) |
| McNeill, Rt. Hon. Ronald John | Rice, Sir Frederick | Warner, Brigadier-General W. W. |
| Macpherson, Rt. Hon. James I. | Roberts, Sir Samuel (Hereford) | Warrender, Sir Victor |
| Macquisten, F. A. | Ropner, Major L. | Watson, Sir F. (Pudsey and Otley) |
| MacRobert, Alexander M. | Ruggles-Brise, Lieut.-Colonel E. A. | Watson, Rt. Hon. W. (Carlisle) |
| Makins, Brigadier-General E. | Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth) | Watts, Dr. T. |
| Malone, Major P. B. | Salmon, Major I. | Wells, S. R. |
| Manningham-Buller, Sir Mervyn | Sandeman, N. Stewart | Wheler, Major Sir Granville C. H. |
| Margesson, Captain D. | Sanders, Sir Robert A. | White, Lieut.-Col. Sir G. Dalrymple. |
| Meller, R. J. | Sanderson, Sir Frank | Wiggins, William Martin |
| Meyer, Sir Frank | Savery, S. S. | Williams, Com. C. (Devon, Torquay) |
| Milne, J. S. Wardlaw. | Shaw, Lt.-Col. A. D. Mcl. (Renfrew, W.) | Williams, Herbert G. (Reading) |
| Mitchell, S. (Lanark, Lanark) | Sheffield, Sir Berkeley | Wilson, Sir Charles H. (Leeds, Central) |
| Mitchell, Sir W. Lane (Streatham) | Simms, Dr. John M. (Co. Down) | Wilson, R. R. (Stafford, Lichfield) |
| Moore, Sir Newton J. | Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir John | Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George |
| Moore-Brabazon, Lieut.-Col. J. T. C. | Sinclair, Col. T. (Queen's Univ., Belfast) | Wise, Sir Fredric |
| Morrison, H. (Wilts, Salisbury) | Skelton, A. N. | Wolmer, Viscount |
| Murchison, Sir Kenneth | Smith-Carington, Neville W. | Womersley. W. J. |
| Nall, Colonel Sir Joseph | Somerville, A. A. (Windsor) | Wood, B. C. (Somerset, Bridgwater) |
| Nelson, Sir Frank | Spencer, G. A. (Broxtowe) | Wood, E. (Chest'r, Stalyb'dge & Hyde) |
| Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge) | Spender-Clay, Colonel H. | Wood, Sir H. K. (Woolwich, West) |
| Nicholson, O. (Westminster) | Sprot, Sir Alexander | Wood, Sir S. Hill- (High Peak) |
| Nicholson, Col. Rt. Hn. W. G. (Ptrsf'ld.) | Stanley, Col. Hon. G. F. (Will'sden, E) | Woodcock, Colonel H. C. |
| Nield, Rt. Hon. Sir Herbert | Stanley, Lord (Fylde) | Worthington-Evans, Rt. Hon. Sir L. |
| Nuttall, Ellis | Streatfeild, Captain S. R. | Wragg, Herbert |
| Oakley, T. | Stuart, Crichton, Lord C. | Young, Rt. Hon. Hilton (Norwich) |
| Penny, Frederick George | Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn) | |
| Perkins, Colonel E. K. | Styles, Captain H. Walter | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| Peto, Sir Basil E. (Devon, Barnstaple) | Sueter, Rear-Admiral Murray Fraser | Commander B. Eyres Monsell and |
| Peto, G. (Somerset, Frome) | Tasker, R. Inigo. | Colonel Gibbs. |
| Phillpson, Mabel | Thom, Lt.-Col. J. G. (Dumbarton) | |
| NOES. | ||
| Adamson, Rt. Hon. W. (Fife, West) | Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvll) | Purcell, A. A. |
| Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) | Hardle, George D. | Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) |
| Ammon, Charles George | Hartshorn, Rt. Hon. Vernon | Riley, Ben |
| Attlee, Clement Richard | Hayes, John Henry | Ritson, J. |
| Baker, Walter | Henderson, Rt. Hon. A. (Burnley) | Roberts, Rt. Hon. F. O.(W. Bromwich) |
| Barker, G. (Monmouth, Abertillery) | Henderson, T. (Glasgow) | Robinson. W. C. (Yorks, W. R., Elland) |
| Barnes, A. | Hirst, G. H. | Rose, Frank H. |
| Barr, J. | Hirst, W. (Bradford, South) | Saklatvala, Shapurji |
| Batey, Joseph | Hudson, J. H. (Huddersfield) | Sexton, James |
| Bondfield, Margaret | John, William (Rhondda, West) | Shaw, Rt. Hon. Thomas (Preston) |
| Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. | Johnston, Thomas (Dundee) | Shepherd, Arthur Lewis |
| Broad, F. A. | Jones, J. J. (West Ham, Silvertown) | Short, Alfred (Wednesbury) |
| Bromley, J. | Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) | Smillie, Robert |
| Brown, James (Ayr and Bute) | Jones, T. I. Mardy (Pontypridd) | Smith, H. B. Lees (Keighley) |
| Buchanan, G. | Kelly, W. T. | Smith, Rennie (Penistone) |
| Buxton, Rt. Hon. Noel | Kennedy, T. | Snell, Harry |
| Cape, Thomas | Kenworthy, Lt.-Com. Hon. Joseph M. | Snowden, Rt. Hon. Philip |
| Clowes, S. | Kirkwood, D. | Spoor, Rt. Hon. Benjamin Charles |
| Cluse, W. S. | Lansbury, George | Stamford, T. W. |
| Clynes, Rt. Hon. John R. | Lawrence, Susan | Stephen, Campbell |
| Compton, Joseph | Lawson, John James | Stewart, J. (St. Rollox) |
| Connolly, M. | Lee, F. | Sullivan, J. |
| Cove, W. G. | Lindley, F. W. | Sutton, J. E. |
| Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities) | Lowth, T. | Thomas, Rt. Hon. James H. (Derby) |
| Dalton, Hugh | Lunn, William | Thorne, W. (West Ham, Platstow) |
| Davies, Evan (Ebbw Vale) | Mackinder, W. | Thurtle, Ernest |
| Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) | MacLaren, Andrew | Tinker, John Joseph |
| Duncan, C. | MacNeill-Weir, L. | Townend, A. E. |
| Dunnico, H. | March, S. | Trevelyan, Rt. Hon. C. P. |
| Garro-Jones, Captain G. M. | Maxton, James | Viant, S. P. |
| Gillett, George M. | Mitchell, E. Rosslyn (Paisley) | Wallhead, Richard C. |
| Gosling, Harry | Montague, Frederick | Walsh, Rt. Hon. Stephen |
| Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) | Morris, R. H. | Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda) |
| Graham, Rt. Hon. Wm. (Edin., Cent.) | Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) | Webb, Rt. Hon. Sidney |
| Greenall, T. | Murnin, H. | Wedgwood, Rt. Hon. Joslah |
| Greenwood, A. (Nelson and Colne) | Palln, John Henry | Wellock, Wilfred |
| Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) | Paling, W. | Welsh, J. C. |
| Groves, T. | Pethick-Lawrence, F. W. | Westwood, J. |
| Grundy, T. W. | Ponsonby, Arthur | Wheatley, Rt. Hon. J. |
| Hall, F. (York, W. R., Normanton) | Potts, John S. | Williams, David (Swansea, E.) |
| Williams, Dr. J. H.(Llanelly) | Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— |
| Williams T. (York, Don Valley) | Windsor, Walter | Mr. Charles Edwards and Mr. |
| Wilson, C. H.(Sheffield, Attercliffe) | Wright W. | Whiteley. |