HC Deb 29 March 1927 vol 204 cc1081-4
Mr. RENNIE SMITH

I beg to move, in page 3, line 5, to leave out the words "the Channel Islands".

I move this Amendment in order to draw attention to the administration of the Army in the Channel Islands and to ask the Secretary of State for War one or two questions on that administration. I gather that, in addition to a garrison of Regulars, quite rightly arranged for by this Government, there is a Service which is raised exclusively by the authorities in the Channel Islands themselves, and that that Service differs from the Service throughout the rest of the country and, indeed, throughout the rest of the United Kingdom.

The DEPUTY-CHAIRMAN

I do not think that the Secretary of State for War would be responsible for the force raised in Jersey. That does not come under the Army and Air Force (Annual) Bill.

Mr. SMITH

I thought, probably you might rule that I was out of order, but may I put it to you that, for the maintenance of this Service, there is a sum amounting, approximately, to about £20,000 provided by this House of Commons. I, therefore, thought that it would be perfectly within the competence of this discussion to raise the point.

The DEPUTY-CHAIRMAN

That particular question would be better raised on the Estimates than on the Army and Air Force (Annual) Bill.

Mr. SMITH

Do I understand that it is entirely out of order? I would point out that it had been my intention to raise it on the Estimates, but a suitable occasion did not offer itself.

The DEPUTY-CHAIRMAN

I am afraid that the hon. Member must wait until a suitable occasion does arise on the Estimates.

Mr. KELLY

May I ask a question? I want to be quite clear. In paragraph (a) of Clause 2 there is a reference to certain phrases such as the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man. Has the Isle of Man, which has a Legislature of its own, the power to express itself on this Army and Air Force (Annual) Bill 3 Does it come before that particular House for discussion, sanction, approval, or opinion of any kind, or is it just a matter that we in this House decide, and they are compelled to accept what we decide without any reference at all to them? I ask, because there is no representation of that particular place in this House. I would like the Secretary of State to say whether or not this is passed without any regard to the opinion of the people in that island?

The SECRETARY of STATE for WAR (Sir Laming Worthington-Evans)

That question is put under a misapprehension, as, indeed, the previous attempt to discuss the Militia of the Channel Islands was made. We are dealing to-day only with British troops, the money for which is voted by this House, and the numbers of which are settled by this House. This Estimate only refers to those troops stationed in the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands, and the answer to the last question is that it is this House which determines the matter, and no other House.

Mr. KELLY

Do I understand that we have troops stationed in the lsle of Man.

Sir L. WORTHINGTON-EVANS

I am not sure what troops there are at this moment in the Isle of Man, but at any moment we might have troops there.

Mr. LAWSON

It is said that in the Channel Islands there is something like compulsory military service. Could the right hon. Gentleman give us a guarantee that this Army and Air Force (Annual) Bill does not apply to any of these people whose service violates the very principle we have in this Bill?

4.0 p.m.

Sir L. WORTHINGTON-EVANS

it does not apply so far as any enactment of this House is concerned. They are free to apply it as a local Ordinance.

Mr. LAWSON

I submit that if this Bill lays down Regulations for discipline and general conduct, and the forces in the Channel Islands are compelled to serve under conditions which this Bill does not contemplate they should serve under, the hon. Member for Penistone (Mr. R. Smith) ought to have the right to discuss this question in its wider application.

Sir L. WORTHINGTON-EVANS

It is quite clear that this Bill refers merely to British troops raised and paid in accordance with the decisions of this House. There are, in addition, in the Channel Islands a militia to which this Bill does not in any way apply by any volition of ours, but we cannot prevent local people passing an Ordinance to make a similar Act to this one apply to the troops they raise in the Channel Islands, and that is not open for our discussion.

Question, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill," put, and agreed to.