§ 45. Mr. PETHICK-LAWRENCEasked the Prime Minister whether it is his intention to introduce legislation embodying the Government's proposals with regard to the House of Lords?
§ Mr. CHURCHILLThe Lord Chancellor indicated in another place the general view of His Majesty's Government upon the questions connected with the reform of the House of Lords and the relations of the two Houses. It has also been stated that the Government intend to deal with the subject within the life-time of the present Parliament. The discussions which are now proceeding upon the Motion of a private Peer in the House of Lords will be of assistance to His Majesty's Government in deciding upon the final form which the legislative proposals they will ultimately present to Parliament should take.
§ Mr. CLYNESDoes the Chancellor consider it too early to state the form, or is it intended to proceed by means of Resolution or by Bill?
§ Mr. CHURCHILLIt is far too early to approach this matter in any form as definite as that.
§ Mr. W. THORNEIs any arrangement to be made for grave diggers to be represented?
§ Mr. MACPHERSONIs the House to understand that the Government are not agreed upon the proposals Viscount Cave adumbrated the other day in another place?
§ Mr. CHURCHILLThe statement by the Lord Chancellor, as I have said, embodies the general view of the Government upon these serious questions. That statement is now being discussed in another place, and the Government intend to profit by the discussion and to consider the position in the light of the expressions of opinion in another place and also of opinion out of doors which may result from the ventilation of the question.
§ Mr. PETHICK-LAWRENCEAre we to understand that the Government's intention is to introduce legislation next Session?
§ Mr. CHURCHILLObviously, no legislation can be introduced this Session—every day is occupied—and the legislation of next Session will be found to be fully set out in the King's Speech when it is delivered.
§ Mr. THURTLEIn considering this matter, will the Government bear in mind the views of the right hon. Gentleman himself on the House of Lords as expressed at the time of the Parliament Act?
§ Mr. CHURCHILLI hope to have an opportunity of expressing those views. It is well known that I was a strong supporter of the Parliament Act, and, therefore, I am not discontented with proposals under which that Act remains substantially intact.
Commander WILLIAMSIs there not a reasonable chance that this may not be dealt with in this Parliament which has very many much more important things to deal with?
§ Mr. KIRKWOODIs it not the right hon. Gentleman's personal opinion that the only hope for the other House is the grave?
§ Mr. SPEAKERWe seem to be trying to debate something that does not exist.
§ Mr. CLYNES (by Private Notice)asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether this House is to have a very early opportunity of discussing the question of House of Lords reform and the Government's declared policy, which vitally affects the rights and privileges of the House of Commons?
§ Mr. CHURCHILLAs I have already stated, there is no question of any further legislative proposals being put forward during the present Session, and the time of the House is fully occupied during the present Session. Therefore, it is not the intention of the Government to give any additional facilities for discussion other than those which are provided by the rules and procedure of the House, and among the facilities so provided there is, of course, at the option of the official Opposition of the opportunity of tabling a Vote of Censure upon any subject.
§ Mr. CLYNESI think the House will notice how marked is the disinclination of the Government to assent to a discussion of this matter and to offer facilities accordingly. I can only express my dissatisfaction at the terms of the reply, and state that, although it is not intended immediately to introduce legislative proposals, the policy and purpose of the Government have been revealed in another place and it becomes the immediate duty of the Opposition to take the necessary steps to secure that discussion.
§ Mr. HARRISAs the House of Lords has three days to discuss these proposals is not the House of Commons entitled to have one day at least?
§ Mr. CHURCHILLThe time of the House of Commons is somewhat more fully occupied than that of the House of Lords.
§ Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHYThe Chancellor of the Exchequer has said that the Government hope to profit by a discussion in another place. Does he not think that they might profit by a discussion by their own followers in this place?
§ Mr. CHURCHILLNo doubt when legislation is introduced we shall profit by the opinion expressed in every quarter of the House.
§ Mr. MAXTONIs it the intention of the Government to anticipate the passing of the House of Lords Reform proposals by making the House of Lords now the governmental centre of the country?
§ Mr. CHURCHILLI am not aware of any project of that kind, but it certainly would be a matter of great interest if there were such a project.
Viscountess ASTORSurely the Government is going to hear the opinions of the House of Commons, the opinions of those on their own side.
§ Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHYThey are all too docile.
§ Sir J. NALLIs it not the fact that Session after Session private Members' Motions have been put down on this question and discussed in this House?
§ Mr. MACPHERSONIs it the intention of the Government to introduce legislation in this House early next Session?
§ Mr. CHURCHILLI have answered that question very fully. Discussions are now going on in the House of Lords, and in due course we shall consider what form the legislative proposals we shall make should take. When they are introduced they will be introduced under all the safeguards of our regular Parliamentary procedure.
Viscountess ASTORDo I understand that the Government mean to go on with this before they have heard the opinion of their own side in the House of Commons? May I ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether it is not true that the Committee of the House of Commons which was set up to discuss this question, from his own side, did not agree?
§ Mr. CHURCHILLThe Noble Lady seems to have a different idea of the amount of preliminary discussions which should be given to a question affecting the Lords than she thinks should attach to a question affecting ladies.
Viscountess ASTORIs it not true that the question of votes for women was before the country at the last election and that the Prime Minister was pledged to it, whereas the question of the reform of the House of Lords has been discussed but never even agreed upon by the right hon. Gentleman's own party?
§ Mr. MACPHERSONMay I press my right hon. Friend, in view of the fact that there is obviously a great deal of doubt and anxiety in the minds al his followers with regard to the proposals which have been adumbrated in another place, to reconsider his decision and give at least a day during the present Session to a discussion of these proposals.
§ Mr. CHURCHILLI gather from the language used by the acting Leader of the Opposition that it is very likely that the party opposite will facilitate such a discussion—also the Noble Lady.