§ Captain FRASERThe House is tired, and I ask the indulgence of hon. Members for two or three minutes to raise a matter which is of some importance to a considerable number of ex-service civil servants. The Government have decided to hold an examination in November with the object of introducing into the Civil Service a certain number of young men and young women. At the same time, we are reaching a position where, owing to reductions, for example, in the Ministry of Pensions, and from other causes, a considerable number of ex-service temporary civil servants are receiving notice that they must leave the service. In a particular office 100 people have been notified within the last day or two that they must leave the service in a month, and we are given to understand that in the next few months there will be some additions to that number. Considerable fear is felt by all these men that the Substitution Board, which has done admirable work in trying to replace them in other Departments, may not be able to find them work.
The day before yesterday the Financial Secretary to the Treasury stated, in answer to a question, that the introduction into the service of successful candidates from this examination would not lead to the dismissal of ex-service men. The words he used were that no efficient ex-service civil servant would lose his job 1688 to make room for a young man or woman who was successful in this examination. That assurance is very gratifying and minimises to a considerable extent the apprehensions which some of us felt, but while we do not in any sense whatever question the honourable intentions of my right hon. Friend, nor think for one moment that he has not the utmost desire to put these men in employment, we fail to see how, in fact, he can substantiate that statement. This, briefly, is the position. There are three kinds of civil servants—the established civil servant, the permanent civil servant, or P Class man, and what is called in the service the fringe man. Under the Guinness Agreement the P men, that is, the middle group, were told that as individuals they should stand a chance of receiving promotion into the established group. Unfortunately, the opportunity has not arisen for a single one to receive that promotion. The fringe men understood that at any rate one-third of the vacancies which arise in the P class through either promotion or wastage would be given to them, and some of them have had that promotion. Here we are faced with a position in which the Financial Secretary says no ex-Service man will leave to make room for a boy or girl, and yet ex-Service men are being told to leave now, and fear that the Substitution Board will not be able to replace them; and in November some few hundreds of boys and girls will go into permanent jobs in the Civil Service.
As I understand it, the work done by the boy or girl and by certain of these ex-service clerks is similar work, and I foresee that next year, or at any rate very soon, some of the boys and girls successful in November will be in work and some of the ex-Service men at present in work will be out of work. Under those circumstances, it seems difficult to place anything but the most narrow interpretation upon the answer given to that question two days ago. The Government has, I think rightly, decided to give a preference to ex-Service men in reference to these jobs. It is recognised that this preference must cost not only money but something in the reduced efficiency and elasticity of the Civil Service, and undoubtedly a case can be made out for the service demanding the introduction of new people who will grow up in the 1689 Service, but, with unemployment as bad as it is, the time has not come when anything should be done to place any of these ex-Service men out of work. I hope the spokesman for the Government will be able to say that he will reconsider this matter, or at any rate go a little further than the Financial Secretary was able to go two days ago and assure us that no ex-Service men will be dismissed to make room for a boy or a girl, and that we shall not find boys or girls in jobs in a year of two's time and ex-Service men who are now in similar jobs out of work.
§ The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER (Mr. Churchill)My hon. and gallant Friend did not send any notice to the Financial Secretary to the Treasury that he proposed to raise this matter.
§ Captain FRASERI gave the Financial Secretary notice, but I perfectly understood that an important engagement in his constituency rendered it difficult for him to be present in the House before 12.30. The Opposition did not take advantage of their opportunity to take, part in this Debate, and this subject has been raised sooner than was expected.
§ Mr. CHURCHILLI hope the hon. and gallant Gentleman will hold the Financial Secretary and myself guiltless for not being able to enter upon the topics he has raised in detail at this moment. The Rules and Regulations dealing with this subject are very well known, and they have been carefully studied by my hon. and gallant Friend, and this has enabled him to raise this question with singular ability. I will undertake to draw the attention of the Financial Secretary to the remarks which the hon. and gallant Gentleman has made, and I can assure him that they will be most carefully considered.
§ Mr. ERNEST BROWNI quite agree with what has been said on this subject by my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for North St. Pancras (Captain Fraser), and I hope the merely departmental view will not prevail in this matter.