HC Deb 28 July 1927 vol 209 cc1620-2

Lords Amendment:

In page 18, line 29, at the end, insert: Provided that Section one of the Moneylenders Act, 1911, shall continue in force as respects any agreement with or security taken by a moneylender before the commencement of this Act, or any payment or transfer of money or property made, whether before or after the commencement of this Act, on the faith of the validity of any such agreement or security.

The LORD ADVOCATE

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

This Amendment deals with the same point, the repealing of the Act of 1911. We must safeguard any transaction that has already fallen under the Act of 1911, and that is the sole purpose of this Amendment.

Subsequent Lords Amendment agreed to.

Lords Amendment:

In page 18, line 32, at the end, insert Provided that—

  1. (a) subject to the provisions of any Regulations or rules made under this Act, licences and certificates may be granted to moneylenders at any time after the first day of October, nineteen hundred and twenty-seven; and
  2. (b) Orders in Council may be made under the provisions of this Act relating to Courts to which proceedings on moneylenders' transactions are to be taken at any time after the passing of this Act,
so, however, that no such licence or Order in Council shall come into force until the commencement of this Act. Nothing in the foregoing proviso shall be construed to limit or otherwise affect the provisions of Section thirty-seven of the Interpretation Act, 1889.

The LORD ADVOCATE

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

Under the provision of the Bill this Measure will come into force on 1st January, 1928. It was thought that it would be convenient to enable moneylenders to apply for and to get their licences prior to that date, in order that they may be ready to conduct their business under the new conditions as soon as the Act comes into force, and the object of this Amendment is to allow them to apply for the licence, and to provide for giving the Courts the necessary jurisdiction, which has to be done under Orders in Council.

Captain GARRO-JONES

The learned Lord Advocate has given us an explanation which deals only with half of the proposed Amendment. He has said nothing about (b), which reads as follows, and which I think the House ought to hear.

The LORD ADVOCATE

If the hon. and gallant Member had been listening to my closing words he would know that I did refer to it.

Captain GARRO-JONES

Then the Lord Advocate must have done that very cursorily, and I think his explanation was quite inadequate. I submit that this is a matter which should not be left to an Order in Council. The County Court should have power to deal with ordinary actions under this Clause. We ought to satisfy ourselves that all the safeguards regarding the cheapness of litigation which apply in small monetary contracts shall be available to those who borrow from moneylenders. I am not content to leave it to an Order in Council to protect small litigants.

The LORD ADVOCATE

On a point of Order. I would like to know if it is in order to deal with a matter which has already been fixed by Clause 11? What we are now considering only affects the date at which Orders in Council may be made.

Captain GARRO-JONES

This proviso states very clearly in paragraph (b) that Orders in Council may be made under the provisions of this Act relating to Courts to which proceedings on moneylenders' transactions are to be taken at any time after the passing of this Act. It is a new proviso, and I think we are entitled to a fuller explanation.

Mr. SPEAKER

It is an additional proposal, and it does not derogate from the powers of the earlier part of the Clause.

Captain GARRO-JONES

I know it does not derogate from those powers, but I want to know how far those Orders in Council will carry us, and whether they will deprive us of any of our safeguards allowing us to apply to the lower Courts. If the Order in Council said that no action should be brought except before the King's Bench Division, that would be a lawful Order in Council, and therefore I think we should have some additional safeguard.

Subsequent Lords Amendment agreed to.