HC Deb 12 July 1927 vol 208 cc1921-3
2. Mr. MACQUISTEN

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware that Norman Shaw, assistant keeper, Toward Lighthouse, Argyll, who has been in the employment of the Lighthouse Commissioners for 10 years, has been dismissed from his employment because he refused to accept instruction in the use of the wireless installation on the Sabbath Day, although he offered to accept instruction on any week-day, and also offered to attend to any emergency call on the Sabbath Day once he was instructed; that he has been told to vacate his house on the 15th of this month; and will steps be taken to see that this decision is forthwith rescinded?

Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTER

I communicated my hon. Friend's question to the Clyde Lighthouse Trustees, who are the authority responsible, and I have received from them the following reply: On Sunday, 1st May, the wireless installation between Toward and Cumbrae Lighthouses was being tested; by the afternoon the principal keeper was exhausted with the work, and Shaw was asked to take his place, and refused on ground that this work was unnecessary on Sunday. The matter was reported to a meeting of the Trust, who gave Shaw an opportunity of withdrawing from the position he had taken up, which he refused to do, and his services have been dispensed with. His house is required on 15th instant for his successor. The Clyde Lighthouse Trustees are an independent statutory authority over which the Board of Trade have no control.

Mr. MACQUISTEN

Am I to understand that this man was called before the Board and told to apologise or be dismissed because he refused to disobey the dictates of his conscience; that the Clyde Lighthouse Body is in a different position from the Members of this House, who have just heard at Prayers that "Kings reign and Princes decree justice," and is this independent body able to defy His Law and overrule the dictates of this man's conscience? It is a shocking state of affairs.

Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTER

I have only such authority as Parliament, by Statute, has delegated to me, and Parliament has established an entirely independent authority, partly elected by the users of lights, partly by the chambers of commerce and other bodies in Glasgow. I cannot answer or be held responsible for any body over which I have no sort of control.

Mr. KIRKWOOD

Is the President of the Board of Trade quite correct when he says that we have no control over this body? Will he remember that it is the Sabbath Day which is dealt with in this question; and that just adjacent to this Toward Lighthouse is the pier of Dunoon, where they made a strenuous fight for years to keep the pier closed to steamers on Sundays?

Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTER

I am quite clear what my jurisdiction is. Since the question appeared on the Order Paper I have looked into it with care and studied the Statute. I have no sort of power, either indirect or direct, over this body which is established by Statute. Its trustees are, by Statute, partly elected by the shipowners of the Clyde River, partly by the chambers of commerce of Glasgow and Port Glasgow, and partly, I think, by the Merchant Guild of Glasgow. I have not even got, as I have over other lighting authorities, the indirect control of having to approve of their estimates, and, therefore, I am really rather doubtful whether I have any jurisdiction even to answer questions of fact about them. The question was on the Paper, and I thought the proper thing to do was to communicate with this body and ask them to give such a reply as I have deliberately given to the House in the telegram I have read, but it would be quite impossible for me to undertake any action with regard to a body over which Parliament has entirely deprived me of any control.

Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHY

Could not the right hon. Gentleman find out what wireless tests were being made? He may have some jurisdiction there, and prevent these tests being made on Sundays. There are six other days in the week.

Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTER

I am perfectly clear on the matter. This was a telephonic communication between two lighthouses, both of them entirely within the direction of this statutory and autonomous body, and I have no more authority to interfere with them than I have to interfere with the hon. and gallant Gentleman.

Mr. SPEAKER

It is quite clear that this is a matter outside our jurisdiction.

Mr. ERNEST BROWN

May I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman proposes to ask Parliament for legal powers to sack this body and reinstate this God-fearing man?

Mr. MACQUISTEN

Cannot the right hon. Gentleman make representations to the constituents of this usurping body to take away from them functions that they should not possess?

Mr. KIRKWOOD

They are all Tories on this body; there is not a Labour man among them.