HC Deb 05 December 1927 vol 211 cc981-3
54. Mr. PETHICK-LAWRENCE

asked the Prime Minister whether the Act for the indenturing of native juveniles in Southern Rhodesia has received His Majesty's formal assent; whether notification of this assent was made by the Governor by speech or message to the legislative bodies or by Proclamation in the Gazette; and, if so, on what date?

The PRIME MINISTER

The notification that it was His Majesty's pleasure not to disallow the Southern Rhodesia Native Juveniles Employment Act, 1926, was made by a Proclamation of the Governor dated the 16th June last, and published in the Southern Rhodesia Government Gazette.

Mr. THURTLE

Is the Prime Minister aware that this means that within the British Empire slavery of little children is being permitted?

Mr. SPEAKER

Order, order!

Colonel WEDGWOOD rose

Mr. SPEAKER

This refers to a part of the Empire which has its own Government.

Colonel WEDGWOOD

Surely, this question, dealing with native affairs in Rhodesia, is one that is subject to the action of the Government of this country? Is the right hon. Gentleman really satisfied that this recent development in Southern Rhodesia, due very largely to the preference given to Empire-grown tobacco, is in the interests of British traditions?

The PRIME MINISTER

That is a question, I think, which lends itself to debate. The next question will afford an opportunity for asking the questions which the right hon. and gallant Gentle- man the Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Colonel Wedgwood) and the hon. Member for Shoreditch (Mr. Thurtle) desire to raise.

Mr. MACQUISTEN

Is the Prime Minister aware that in Southern Rhodesia, as in other parts of Africa, children are always regarded by the natives as an asset instead of a liability?

55. Mr. AMMON

asked the Prime Minister whether, seeing that he has sanctioned legislation for the indenture of children in Southern Rhodesia, his attention has been drawn to the fact that numbers of young children are employed in the mica mines; whether he has received and considered the most recent Report of the Chief Native Commissioner, in which this official states that the mica mineowners and farmers have cut wages to the lowest possible limit; and whether, in view of these facts, he will invite the Southern Rhodesia Government to submit a Report upon the whole question of child employment in Southern Rhodesia?

The PRIME MINISTER

According to a Report recently received from the Southern Rhodesia Government, the estimated number of native juveniles employed on the mica mines is approximately 300, out of a total labour complement of 800 natives. These are all boys, and the majority of them are children of natives living in the district where the mines are situated, and in most instances their parents or guardians are employed on the same mine. These native juveniles are all voluntary employés, and are engaged on a monthly basis. Their ages range from 10 to 15 years. No juveniles are employed underground or on work involving heavy manual labour. The Southern Rhodesia Government have the mines inspected periodically, and are satisfied that the conditions under which these juveniles work are comfortable and hygienic, and that they are well housed and fed.

Mr. AMMON

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this is a Report made by the Native Commissioner to the Rhodesian Assembly, in which the Native Commissioner condemns this, and says that the reason is that the sweated wages paid to adult labour have driven adults away, and child slave labour is being used?

The PRIME MINISTER

I think it would be much better that this matter should be dealt with in Debate rather than by question and answer. If my memory serves me, the Report is dated some little time back, before the time when these arrangements were made, and, as the hon. Member has asked these questions, I think it is only fair to state that the employment of juveniles was entirely uncontrolled and uncontrollable until this Act was passed. Under this Act, the Native Commissioners have power to prohibit the employment of juveniles wherever such employment is contrary to the interests of the juveniles. The matter is one which, I think, should be debated in this House at some time, because there is a great deal to be said on both sides.

Mr. AMMON

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this is a Report for the year 1926,and that it was only printed in 1927, by command of the Government?

The PRIME MINISTER

That is quite true: I am quite familiar with the Report; I have been studying it this morning. The Report deals with a period antecedent to the period when this Act, with all its Regulations, came into force. This Act has gone a considerable distance in getting control over what hitherto has been subject to no control at all.

Sir R. HAMILTON

Can the right hon. Gentleman say the minimum age at which children can be indentured under this law?

The PRIME MINISTER

I speak with out full knowledge of these technical terms in the Dominions and Colonies, but this is not, as I understand the word, indentured labour—

Sir R.HAMILTON

I beg pardon: I mean apprenticed.

The PRIME MINISTER

I cannot answer the question without notice.