HC Deb 15 March 1926 vol 193 cc53-6
Sir ROBERT HAMILTON

I desire to ask your ruling, Mr. Speaker, with regard to a matter arising out of procedure on the Criminal Justice (Increase of Penalties) Bill. The facts are these. The Bill was read a Second time on 18th February, with a Clause in it that it should not extend to Scotland. It was considered in Standing Committee A for the first time on 11th March, when Members were aware of an Amendment handed in the previous day by the Solicitor-General for Scotland extending the Bill to Scotland. I desire lo ask your ruling whether the procedure adopted, whereby a change was proposed in the existing law of Scotland, without any previous notice being given to Scottish Members, is in accordance with the precedent and practice of this House when dealing with legislation affecting Scotland?

Sir HENRY CAUTLEY

On that point of Order. Has is not been for years the constant practice that Bills referred to Standing Committee have either been extended to Scotland or restricted in their application to Scotland?

Mr. SPEAKER

I cannot find anything irregular or in disaccord with the practice of the House in what took place. Notice was given by the placing of the Amendment the day before on the Notice Paper.

Sir R. HAMILTON

May I point out that, although notice was given of the Amendment the day before the Committee met, hon. Members had their first notice of it in the Standing Committee A. Scottish Members, practically, had notice that the Bill did not extend to Scotland, and it was not until the Bill came before Standing Committee A that we knew it did.

Sir HENRY CRAIK

The Bills referring to Scotland are referred to the Scottish Committee, but the extension of this Bill to Scotland is a separate matter. I say nothing of the merits; very probably it was right that the Bill should be extended to Scotland. But is it riot opening an entirely new method of procedure if a Bill, which on the face of it does not apply to Scotland, is sent to a Committee up- stairs on which no Scottish Member may he sitting, is to he held to apply to Scotland? If so, then the use of the Scottish Standing Committee is at an end.

Mr. SPEAKER

I cannot hold with that doctrine. The hon. and learned Member himself could have put this Amendment on the Paper, or, if the Bill did refer to Scotland, he might have moved that Scotland should be struck out.

Mr. MAXTON

May I put it to you, Mr. Speaker, on behalf of Scottish Members that while this Bill was being debated in the House on Second Reading Scottish Members deliberately cut themselves clear from taking any part in that Debate, on the assumption that there was no thought on the part of the Government or anyone to extend it to Scotland. I have learned for the first time of this Amendment to-day. I am not on Standing Committee A, and no steps were taken to get additional Scottish Members put on that Committee. The whole thing seems to me to be a deliberate flouting of the practice of this Rouse in reference to Scottish questions. I am sorry—perhaps you, Mr. Speaker, are very glad—that the majority of my colleagues have not returned from Scotland over the week-end.

Sir R. HAMILTON

May I ask whether it is the practice in circumstances similar to this for additional Scottish Members to be put on a Committee when Scotland is brought within the purview of a Bill?

Mr. SPEAKER

That is a matter entirely for the Committee of Selection. I have no control over it. But the Bill has not yet passed all its stages, and hon. Members can raise the matter, if they desire, later on.

Mr. MAXTON

Is it still within our rights, now that the Committee is operating, to ask that special Scottish Members be added to this Committee?

Sir H. CAUTLEY

If the contention of the hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Sir R. Hamilton) were admitted, would it not mean that Bills would have to be introduced separately, one for Scotland and one for England?

Sir H. CRAIK

Is it too much to ask that either a Bill, on the face of it, apply to both countries, or that separate Bills should be introduced, and then one of them which was applicable to Scotland should be referred to the Scottish Committee?

Mr. SPEAKER

That applies to the Committee of Selection, and not to me.