§ 66. Mr. BARKERasked the Minister of Health the number of deposit contributors under the National Health Insurance Act; and if these deposit contributors enjoy full normal rights to benefit under the Widows', Orphans' and Old Age Pensions Act equal with other contributors?
Mr. CHAMBERLAINOn the latest figures available, the number of deposit contributors in England and Wales is 250,617. Generally, deposit contributors now enjoy the same rights under the Contributory Pensions Act as other contributors, and their position is being made absolutely the same in this matter by Regulations about to be issued.
68. Mr. ROBINSONasked the Minister of Health whether, under the powers given him in Section 36 of the Widows', Orphans' and Old Age Contributory Pensions Act, 1925, he will consider the desirability of issuing Regulations granting compensation to a widower on the death of his wife in cases where husband and wife are compulsorily insured persons?
Mr. CHAMBERLAINThis proposal involves an extension of the class of persons for whom benefits are provided by the Act, and legislation would be necessary to give effect to it.
69. Mr. ROBINSONasked the Minister of Health if he could furnish figures showing the number of cases in which husband and wife are compulsorily insured under the Widows', Orphans' and Old Age Contributory Pensions Act in the Counties of Lancashire and Yorkshire, and the remainder of Great Britain, respectively; and whether in these cases provision could be made for reduced contributions from married women?
Mr. CHAMBERLAINNo statistics of the kind mentioned are available, and I am afraid that I could not adopt the suggestion made in the latter part of the question. I may point out that under Section 2 (1) (a) of the Insurance Act an employed person who proves that he or she is ordinarily and mainly dependent for his or her livelihood on some other person is entitled to a certificate of exemption.
§ 72. Mr. KELLYasked the Minister of Health why men sent out by British firms to instal machinery in other 1235 countries are dealt with as being outside the Insurance Acts, even though these men are at times employed in the home shops in this country, such decision resulting in the widows of these men being refused a pension under the Widows', Orphans and Old Age Contributory Pension Act?
Mr. CHAMBERLAINEmployment within the meaning of the Insurance Act is defined in Part I of the First Schedule to that Act as employment in the United Kingdom, and there is no liability on a British firm to pay contributions in respect of employés while they are employed outside the United Kingdom. As regards pensions, the fact that her husband died when employed abroad would not necessarily disqualify a widow from pension if the qualifying conditions laid down in the Act are fulfilled in her case.
§ Mr. KELLYIn the event of the employer failing to pay the contributions, and the men believing they are paid, is the widow still to be deprived of the pension, although the husband has been working for a British firm?
Mr. CHAMBERLAINIf the hon. Member will read the answer I have given to him, he will see that the employer is not bound to pay contributions under these particular circumstances, but that fact does not necessarily disqualify the widow from receiving a pension.
§ Mr. DENNIS HERBERTHas the right hon. Gentleman considered if it is not the case that these men, although working out of the United Kingdom, are strictly employed within the United Kingdom, because their contracts are made here and their employers are carrying on business here?
Mr. CHAMBERLAINThis case was considered while the Bill was going through the House, and I think my hon. Friend will find that it is provided for.
§ 80. Mr. GREENEasked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that Ministry of Health officials have ruled that allowances, payable under the Widows', Orphans' and Old Age. Contributory Pensions Act, 1925, in respect of children of widows, can be claimed only 1236 by, and be paid only to, the mothers, even when the children are inmates of charitable institutions; and under what provisions of the Act such a decision is arrived at?
Mr. CHAMBERLAINThis ruling is in accordance with Section 3 (3) of the Act, which provides that "an additional allowance shall, subject as 'hereinafter mentioned, be paid to the widow together with and as part of the pension.'' The allowance may, by a later provision, be transferred, on the application of the widow, to any person having the temporary charge of the child and, if representations are made to the Minister that the widow has deserted, abandoned or ceased to support the child, he may, if he is satisfied that it is in the interests of the child, direct that the allowance shall be paid to some other person.
§ 81. Mr. CONNOLLYasked the Minister of Health if he is aware that certain boards of guardian; when grant ing relief to widows who are receiving the widows' pension deduct the fun amount of the pension from the amount of relief previously paid, and addition reduce the total amount paid by several shillings a week; and does he propose to issue any instructions to Poor Law authorities on this subject?
Mr. CHAMBERLAINI have not received any complaint of the nature suggested, but I shall be glad to give consideration to any case which the hon. Member may wish to bring before me. As at present advised, I do not think there is any necessity for the issue of any such instructions as are suggested.