§ Mr. WHITELEYI beg to ask leave to move the Adjournment of the House for the purpose of discussing a definite matte, of urgent public importance, namely, "The condition of thousands of miners in the county of Durham who are locked out because they will not submit to lower wages and longer hours, and are refused employment benefit and Poor Law relief and in consequence of the lack of proper sustenance an epidemic of small-pox is now prevalent."
§ Mr. SPEAKERI am afraid that this is not a Motion which I can put to the House under Standing Order No. 10, because it does not in any way comply with the conditions laid down in that Standing Order.
§ Mr. WHITELEYWe have followed the Rules of this House, and we are desirous of continuing to do so. We put three Private Notice Questions on Friday, and you, Mr. Speaker, allowed me to take part in the Debate on Friday with a view to getting some reply from the Ministers concerned, but we have not heard a word. During the week-end I have had three meetings in connection with this matter, meeting various people in our county, and I am wanting some advice. I have not been able to get any, and the position in our county is getting more serious day by day because many of our people, including women and children, are practically starving. I think if there is any matter that should Dome under the Standing Order this is one of them, and it is really an urgent and definite matter of public importance.
§ Mr. LAWSONMay I point out, Mr. Speaker, that it has been established that there is a very serious epidemic of smallpox in the county of Durham, that it is getting worse, and that it has undoubtedly 648 been connected by the medical authorities with the conditions in the county of Durham, and that involves the case of the Consett miners?
§ Mr. SPEAKERIt is not for me to express an opinion on any of these statements. It may be as the two hon. Members have stated, but I have to decide according to the Rules of the House, and this matter certainly does not come under Standing Order No. 10.
§ Mr. WHITELEYIf it is impossible for us to move the Adjournment, may I he allowed to make a suggestion to the Prime Minister? I would like to ask whether the Prime Minister is prepared, owing to the very serious condition of things in our county, to arrange for a conference with the Durham Members to-day and the Minister of Health, the Minister of Labour, and the Secretary for Mines, in order that we may get right down to the actual situation?
§ The PRIME MINISTERIt is difficult for me, without making inquiries as to whether all those Ministers are in London to-day, to give a definite reply. I remember quite well the questions which were asked on Friday, and I noticed that the subject was alluded to during the time which was available. I remember that at the conclusion, owing to no one's fault, the time left for the Minister to reply was barely long enough to develop his argument on the main lines of the Debate. I suggest that I should ask the Minister of Health to give a reply this evening on the Adjournment. I expect the Division will take place at about 11 o'clock, and that would leave about a quarter of an hour for the Minister to give the reply which he might have given on Friday if there had been time. I think possibly that that would be the best course at the present moment, and I will consider that point.
§ Mr. RAMSAY MacDONALDIf that agreement were adopted, would it not deprive my hon. Friends behind me of the opportunity of raising this matter again as a matter of urgent public importance? While it is perfectly obvious, if I may say so, that the drafting of this Motion prevents you from accepting it, the substance embodied in the draft is, surely, in the nature of a question which is entitled to be dealt with as my hon. Friends behind me suggest?
§ The PRIME MINISTERPerhaps my right hon. Friend is not aware of all that has happened here—
§ Mr. MacDONALDYes, I am.
§ The PRIME MINISTERI think the offer I have made is a very fair way of getting an immediate answer, and I suggest that that should be followed.
§ Sir JOHN SIMONPerhaps I might be allowed to make a suggestion. In view of what the Prime Minister has just said, those of us on these benches who are moving an Amendment to-day would be quite willing, as far as we are concerned, to see the hour at which the Division is taken to-night rather advanced, if it were thought desirable to have rather more time for this question. I do not know what may be the view of the Prime Minister as to how much time it would be reasonable to allow, but, as far as we are concerned, we should raise no objection to arranging for the Division at half-past Ten, or even Ten.
§ The PRIME MINISTERAs far as we are concerned, I am quite sure we would gladly come to any agreement of that kind consented to by the Leader of the Opposition.
§ Mr. MacDONALDWe are in this difficulty, that we are so intensely interested in both of these matters, but this matter of a small-pox epidemic is obviously so urgent that it ought to be dealt with without any loss of time, and I should be very glad, and I am sure my friends here would be very glad, to come to any arrangement by which it will have a, prominent discussion without any delay. At the same time, however, we do not want to sacrifice the Education Debate.
§ Mr. LAWSONIs not the Prime Minister aware that there is very strong feeling about the fact that this matter, having been raised on Friday, and having attracted a great deal of attention in all quarters of the House, should have been evaded by the Minister, and that it ought to have been answered either by the Secretary for Mines or by the Minister of Health?
§ The PRIME MINISTERThat is precisely the reason why I am doing all I can, within the Rules of Parliament, to ensure that the matter shall be discussed.
§ Mr. RITSONIs the Prime Minister aware that the Minister of Health devoted a lot of time to speaking about "glad eyes" instead of about sad homes?
§ Mr. BATEYOn a point of Order. Are we to understand that we are refused leave to move the Adjournment, because this Motion is not properly worded? We understood on Friday that we were debarred under Standing Order No. 10 from raising the matter then because it was a Friday, but we thought that we should be in order to-day. I want to urge you, Mr. Speaker, to accept this Motion if possible, because it is really a very serious matter to us.
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe hon. Member asked me on Friday whether or not I would accept such a Motion to-day, and I replied to him that I would deal with the matter when the time came. That is the usual procedure. I am satisfied that this matter cannot be dealt with to-day under Standing Order No. 10, and for that reason I have allowed a conversation to proceed which is really a little beyond the Rules.
§ Mr. BATEYOn a point of Order. Can we get to know where we are? Can we get to know what we are going to get, because half an hour will not do for us, and, as a matter of fact, we shall not get half an hour'?
§ Mr. MacDONALDI would suggest that the Division be taken somewhere about nine or hall-past.
Mr. BECKETTMay I ask whether this agreement does not prejudice the possibility of a conference between Ministers and the Durham Members if no satisfactory decision is come to?