HC Deb 01 December 1926 vol 200 cc1334-6
Mr. SCURR

I beg to move, in page 2, line 11, to leave out from the word "metals" to the end of line 13.

Hon. Members will see that its effect is to leave out a certain power which the Minister of Health has taken in order that he may make a Provisional Order exempting other industrial processes in exactly the same way as at the present time the processes specified in the Clause, which relate to the processes of re-heating, annealing, hardening, forging, converting, and carburising iron and other metals are exempted. These processes refer particularly, I am given to understand, to the industries of Sheffield. I do not want in any sense of the word to wreck the chances of this Bill. In many ways it is an admirable Bill. The only fault we on these benches have to find with it is that it does not go far enough. Therefore, we are very much opposed to any proposition in the Bill which has any tendency to weaken it. An agreement has been made, for good reasons perhaps, that the Sheffield processes should be exempted, but there is no argument, and no justification in my judgment, for giving the Minister power to bring in any other industrial processes. After all, the words, "Any other industrial process" are exceedingly wide. They can cover any kind of industry in the country. It means that the whole object of the Bill will be absolutely wrecked. This Measure has been considered and is very largely supported by the Federation of British Industries who are prepared, speaking as representatives of the industrial community, to support this Bill, and yet we find that the Minister is doing all that he can to weaken it.

I certainly think it is an entirely wrong proposal on the part of the Minister. I also object to the tendency that is growing in all legislation that is coming forward to be constantly having Provisional Orders for this and the other, exempting this and exempting the other. It is said we can always deal with them in the House, but they are never seriously dealt with in the House. Over and over again Provisional Orders we made, and we are not cognisant that they are in existence. It may he said they are laid on the Table for so many days, but that is no protection at all. What it really means is that power is placed in the hands of the Minister. I could trust the present occupant of the office to a large extent, but he may be succeeded by Ministers who have not his strength, and therefore would be likely to yield to pressure brought by great industrial interests. It is absolutely wrong in principle.

Mr. MARCH

I beg to second the Amendment.

The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the MINISTRY of HEALTH (Sir Kingsley Wood)

This Amendment was discussed in Committee and was rejected. The reason for the suggestion is that my right hon. Friend has received representations from other trades and industries asking to be put in the same position as what are called the Sheffield industries, which have been excluded by the Bill, and were excluded by the Bill introduced by the Labour Government. My right hon. Friend is not prepared to make any statement in regard to any application which may be made to him in the future, but it is thought reasonable that any trade or industry which makes an application should have the right to put its case forward, and if my right hon. Friend thinks proper he would proceed by way of Provisional Order, and by that means the final word would remain with Parliament itself. Under the circumstances I think it is a proper proposal, and I hope the hon. Member will not press the matter further, but will accept the decision of the Committee, which I think was given on right and reasonable grounds.

Mr. WOMERSLEY

I lope the Minister will not accept the Amendment. There are many other industries which will be able to put up a very good case for exemption which are not included in the list in the Bill, and the suggestion of the Mover that this power should not be given to the Minister is to my mind altogether wrong. Many manufacturers, particularly those in the Potteries, object very much to the Bill as it stands, and would have very strenuous objections if the power the Minister will have under this Clause was taken away from him. These people have not had the opportunity of placing their case before the Minister.

It being Eleven of the Clock, the Debate stood adjourned.

Debate to be resumed To-morrow.