Mr. GUINNESSI beg to move, in page 28, line 9, at the end, to insert the words
Lace and embroidery…Two-thirds of the full rate.This is to provide an Imperial Preference rate for the new duty.
§ Mr. A. V. ALEXANDERAre we to have no other explanation of what lace is coming in from the Dominions. We have had a most inadequate defence of the other Clause dealing with the Lace Duty. The Financial Secretary has not told us where the lace is coming from; whether it is coming from the Dominions where labour conditions are fair.
§ Mr. CHURCHILLIt would be quite impossible for us in giving preference to the Dominions and Colonies to sit in judgment on the varying labour conditions in any one part of these Dominions, many of which exercise self-governing functions, and are in some cases under the guidance of Governments who accept the labels of the party opposite. I think we must deal on broad lines with the great Dominions who are in the fullest enjoyment of self-governing rights and authority. I hope the hon. Member is not going to get indignant. This is a purely routine proposal. The House has accepted the principle that Preference should be given on existing duties. We are giving the usual Preference, in the usual way, on a duty to be enforced in the future. The rebate will be granted, in the recognised percentage to the Dominions and Colonies, and to make that grant an excuse for calling their internal affairs into review would be most unsuitable. It would be better to have no Preference at all. It is purely a matter of routine. There is nothing that departs in any way from the well-known principles which have operated for many years past. They have been consistently adhered to.
§ Mr. ALEXANDERI think the reply is a justification for raising this point. With regard to lace produced within the Empire, the specific question I asked was, "What part of the Empire is lace coming from?" We have had no reply to that. I speak with no great knowledge of the sources of the supply of lace from the Dominions. I would say that possibly we do not get lace to any great extent except from Malta. Here we have a future disqualification upon the lace industry in this country. We are to have Protection to provide more employment and raise the standard of life. The President of the Board of Trade said he was not concerned with other workers in other parts of the world; he was only concerned about conditions here. Now we are asked to pass this preference without any reference to the conditions of the workers in Malta. We are asked to give a special right of competition to an industry below the British standard.
§ Mr. CHURCHILLIf the duty was not imposed, the competition would be much morel severe. It will now have 1491 two-thirds of the duty operative against it. If we had had no lace duty, the competition of this industry, carried on under whatever conditions it may be, would have continued unrestrained. What we have done should be judged as a whole. We have given one-third rebate to the Colonies in question. So far as the workers in Nottingham are concerned, they are certainly receiving a measure of protection against this competition to which the hon. Gentleman refers. On the other hand, the Colonies in question, by getting Preference, may be able to gain a larger share of trade and a revenue sufficient to improve the conditions under which the lace is made.
§ Mr. JOHNSTONI am sorry the Chancellor of the Exchequer regards this as a purely routine Measure. He should not look at it as something which has happened in previous Preferences, but as embodying a new principle which may make his ideas on Preference much more attractive in other circles in this country. I am sure that would be doing something which would tend to make these Debates run less on party lines. He is not concerned in the Budget, he says, with the labour conditions under which these things are produced. What then becomes of all this talk about safeguarding the conditions, wages, and rights of the workers in Nottingham? I understood that the whole object of proposing this tax was to safeguard these. Now we have it frankly stated by the Chancellor of the Exchequer that he does not care a rush what are the conditions of labour under which—
§ Mr. CHURCHILL indicated dissent.
§ Mr. JOHNSTONI am sorry if I misrepresent him, but I understood him to say that a moment ago.
§ Mr. CHURCHILLI say it is not my affair to intrude in the affairs of the self-governing Dominions.
§ Mr. JOHNSTONThat is the same thing stated in another way. He is not
§ going to interfere in what he calls the affairs of the self-governing Dominions, but he must surely recognise that in this Measure we are not dealing with the self-governing Dominions but with the financial affairs of the people of this country. We are dealing with the conditions of labour of the people of this country. He proposes to put a tax on the import of lace, and when we ask him to ensure that this lace to which he is going to give a preference shall be produced under fair labour conditions he says it is no business of his and he will do nothing. I can assure him that many of us who would regard a discrimination in favour of decent labour conditions with considerable satisfaction are certainly not going to have anything of this kind, and we will all go unitedly into the Lobby against a preference tariff which is not giving a preference on labour conditions, which makes no attempt to raise the standard of labour of the producer, which does nothing whatever but find extra profits for a few exploiters who may not be nationals at all, who need not be British subjects, who may come from anywhere and dump down a factory in Malta or any British Dominion, pay whatever wages they like, observe no trade union conditions, work their poor workers all the hours that God sends and a few more, and import the stuff into this country and smash the labour conditions of the people here. The idea that the primary purpose of the Budget was to raise the conditions of labour of the people of this country is now seen to be wholly a miserable pretence. I trust that Members of this House who have been previously taken in by the story that this Lace Tax was intended to benefit the people of Nottingham will now see that it is not intended to benefit the people of Nottingham at all if the product of sweated labour is to be welcomed so long as that sweated labour comes from the British Dominions.
§ Question put: "That those words be there inserted in the Bill."
§ The House Divided: Ayes, 153; Noes, 49.
1493| Division No. 208.] | AYES. | [1.25 a.m. |
| Acland-Troyte Lieut.-Colonel | Balfour, George (Hampstead) | Bennett, A. J. |
| Agg-Gardner, Rt. Hon. Sir James T. | Barclay-Harvey, C. M. | Boothby, R. J. G. |
| Amery, Rt. Hon. Leopold C. M. S. | Barnett, Major Sir Richard | Bourne, Captain Robert Croft |
| Applin, Colonel R. V. K. | Barnston, Major Sir Harry | Bowyer, Capt. G. E. W. |
| Ashley, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Wilfrid W. | Beamish, Captain T. P. H. | Brassey Sir Leonard |
| Briscoe, Richard George | Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry | Preston, William |
| Brocklebank, C. E. R. | Harland, A. | Radford, E. A. |
| Brooke, Brigadier-General C. R. I. | Harrison, G. J. C. | Raine, W. |
| Bullock, Captain M. | Hartington, Marquess of | Ramsden, E. |
| Burman, J. B. | Hawke, John Anthony | Reid, Capt. A. S. C. (Warrington) |
| Burton, Colonel H. W. | Headlam, Lieut.-Colonel C. M. | Remer, J. R. |
| Campbell, E. T. | Henderson, Capt. R. R. (Oxf'd, Henley) | Richardson, Sir P. W. (Sur'y, Ch'ts'y) |
| Cazalet, Captain Victor A. | Heneage, Lieut.-Col. Arthur P. | Roberts, Samuel (Hereford, Hereford) |
| Chadwick, Sir Robert Burton | Hennessy, Major J. R. G. | Samuel, Samuel (W'dsworth, Putney) |
| Chapman, Sir S. | Hope, Capt. A. O. J. (Warw'k, Nun.) | Sanders, Sir Robert A. |
| Chilcott, Sir Warden | Hopkins, J. W. W. | Sanderson, Sir Frank |
| Christie, J. A. | Horlick, Lieut.-Colonel J. N. | Savery, S. S. |
| Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston Spencer | Howard, Capt. Hon. D. (Cumb., N.) | Shaw, Lt.-Col. A. D. Mcl.(Renfrew, W.) |
| Cobb, Sir Cyril | Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.) | Shaw, Capt. W. W. (Wilts, Westb'y) |
| Cochrane, Commander Hon. A. D. | Huntingfield, Lord | Shepperson, E. W. |
| Cockerill, Brigadier-General G. K. | Iliffe, Sir Edward M. | Simms, Dr. John M. (Co. Down) |
| Cope, Major William | Jacob, A. E. | Skelton, A. N. |
| Courthope, Lieut.-Col. Sir George L. | Jephcott. A. R. | Sprot, Sir Alexander |
| Crookshank, Col. C. de. W. (Berwick) | Kidd, J. (Linlithgow) | Stanley, Col. Hon. G. F.(Will'sden, E.) |
| Curzon, Captain Viscount | King, Captain Henry Douglas | Stanley, Hon. O. F. G. (Westm'eland) |
| Dalkeith, Earl of | Lamb, J. Q. | Stott, Lieut.-Colonel W. H. |
| Davidson, J.(Hertf'd, Homel Hempst'd) | Leigh, Sir John (Clapham) | Strickland, Sir Gerald |
| Davidson, Major-General Sir John H. | Lister, Cunliffe-, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip | Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn) |
| Davies, Maj. Geo. F.(Somerset, Yeovil) | Lloyd, Cyril E. (Dudley) | Styles, Captain H. Walter |
| Dawson, Sir Philip | Loder, J. de V. | Sugden, Sir Wilfrid |
| Dixon, Captain Rt. Hon. Herbert | Luce, Maj.-Gen. Sir Richard Harman | Sykes, Major-Gen, Sir Frederick H. |
| Edmondson, Major A. J. | Lynn, Sir R. J. | Templeton, W. P. |
| Elliot, Captain Walter E. | McDonnell, Colonel Hon. Angus | Thomson, F. C. (Aberdeen, South) |
| Everard, W. Lindsay | McLean, Major A. | Tinne, J. A. |
| Fairfax, Captain J. G. | MacMillan, Captain H. | Titchfield, Major the Marquess of |
| Falls, Sir Charles F. | Mason, Lieut.-Colonel Glyn K. | Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement |
| Fanshawe, Commander G. D. | Meyer, Sir Frank | Vaughan-Morgan, Col. K. P. |
| Fermoy, Lord | Mitchell, S. (Lanark, Lanark) | Wallace, Captain D. E. |
| Fielden, E. B. | Mitchell, W. Foot (Saffron Walden) | Waterhouse, Captain Charles |
| Fleming, D. P. | Moles, Thomas | Watson, Sir F. (Pudsey and Otley) |
| Fraser, Captain Ian | Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. B. M. | Wells, S. R. |
| Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. | Moore, Sir Newton J. | Wheler, Major Sir Granville C. H. |
| Gadie, Lieut.-Col. Anthony | Moore, Lieut.-Colonel T. C. R. (Ayr) | White, Lieut.-Colonel G. Dairymple |
| Gibbs, Col. Rt. Hon. George Abraham | Moore-Brabazon, Lieut.-Col. J. T. C. | Williams, Com. C. (Devon, Torquay) |
| Glyn, Major R. G. C. | Morrison-Bell, Sir Arthur Clive | Williams, Herbert G. (Reading) |
| Goff, Sir Park | Nail, Lieut.-Colonel Sir Joseph | Wilson, R. R. (Stafford, Lichfield) |
| Greene, W. P. Crawford | Neville, R. J. | Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George |
| Greenwood, William (Stockport) | Nicholson, O. (Westminster) | Wise, Sir Fredric |
| Grotrian, H. Brent | O'Connor, T. J. (Bedford, Luton) | |
| Guinness, Rt. Hon. Walter E. | Percy, Lord Eustace (Hastings) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| Hacking, Captain Douglas H. | Perkins, Colonel E. K. | Lord Stanley and Captain Mar- |
| Hall, Capt. W. D'A. (Brecon & Rad.) | Pielou, D. P. | gesson. |
| Hanbury, C. | ||
| NOES. | ||
| Adamson, Rt. Hon. W. (Fife, West) | Hirst, W. (Bradford, South) | Smith, Ben (Bermondsey, Rotherhithe) |
| Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) | Hore-Belisha, Leslie | Stephen, Campbell |
| Alexander, A.V. (Sheffield, Hillsbro') | Hudson, J. H. (Huddersfield) | Sutton, J. E. |
| Ammon, Charles George | Jenkins, W. (Glamorgan, Neath) | Thorne, W. (Wast Ham, Plaistow) |
| Barr, J. | John, William (Rhondda, West) | Tinker, John Joseph |
| Beckett, John (Gateshead) | Johnston, Thomas (Dundee) | Walsh, Rt. Hon. Stephen |
| Benn, Captain Wedgwood (Leith) | Jones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth) | Warne, G. H. |
| Buchanan, G. | Jones, T. I. Mardy (Pontypridd) | Watson, W. M. (Dunfermline) |
| Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities) | Kelly, W. T. | Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda) |
| Dalton, Hugh | Kirkwood, D. | Welsh, J. C. |
| Day, Colonel Harry | Lawson, John James | Westwood, J. |
| Fenby, T. D. | Maxton, James | Wilkinson, Ellen C. |
| Garro-Jones, Captain G. M. | Morris, R. H. | Windsor, Walter |
| Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) | Murnin, H. | |
| Harris, Percy A. | Pethick-Lawrence, F. W. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— |
| Hayday, Arthur | Robertson, J. (Lanark, Bothwell) | Mr. Parkinson and Mr. Charles |
| Henderson, Rt. Hon. A. (Burnley) | Scurr, John | Edwards. |
| Henderson, T. (Glasgow) | Shaw, Rt. Hon. Thomas (Preston) |
§ Bill to be read the Third time upon Thursday, and to be printed. [Bill 203.]
§ The remaining Orders were read, and postponed.
1494§ It being after Half-past Eleven of the Clock upon Tuesday Evening, Mr. SPEAKER adjourned the House, without Question put, pursuant to the Standing Order.
§ Adjourned at Twenty-seven Minutes before Two o'Clock a.m.