§ 53. Colonel DAYasked the right hon. Member for Cheltenham, as representing the Kitchen and Refreshment Rooms Committee, how many persons are employed in the department under the control of the Kitchen Committee, both male and female, respectively: how many receive either full or half-pay during all Recesses; 425 and what provision is being made for those who are not entitled to receive un employment benefit during this coming Recess?
§ Sir J. AGG-GARDNERIn reply to the question of the hon. Member, the number of persons employed by the Kitchen Committee is 69 males and 45 females. Of this number, 21 males and 15 females are in receipt of full or half-pay during all the Recesses. The remaining 78 receive full pay during the Easter and Whitsun Vacations. Their engagement terminates a week after the commencement of the Long Recess and they are almost always re-engaged when Parliament re-assembles.
§ Colonel DAYAs there are a great many of these people who have no income at all during the Vacation, cannot the right hon. Gentleman make representations to the Treasury to make some grant to them, so that they may have some means of subsistence?
§ Sir J. AGG-GARDNERI may inform the hon. Member that, although we are not in a position to give them full pay, which would cost about £1,000, we always see that they have occupations, and they generally succeed in getting good places at the seaside and elsewhere during the Recess.
§ Colonel DAYWill the right hon. Gentleman tell us how the Kitchen Committee see that these people have occupations during the Recess?
§ Mr. J. JONESAre these employés entitled to receive anything under the Unemployment Insurance Act?
§ Sir J. AGG-GARDNERNo, Sir, they are not insurable.
§ Mr. MACKINDERAre we to under stand that this department makes a profit, and, if so, could not some of that profit be devoted to finding money for these people when they are actually out of work?
§ Sir J. AGG-GARDNERWe do not exist to make profit.
§ Mr. MACKINDERBut is it not a fact that a profit is made?
§ Sir J. AGG-GARDNERIt is a very small profit, and not sufficient to enable 426 us to do what is suggested. We have had no complaints at all from any members of our staff.
§ Mr. MACKINDEROn a point of Order. May I ask what opportunity we can have of raising what is undoubtedly a real grievance in the minds of some employee of this House. I want to know when and where we can have an opportunity of raising this question.
§ Mr. SPEAKERThere is a Committee appointed by the House, upon which all parts of the House are represented.
§ Mr. MACKINDERSeeing that this is a matter which affects the whole of the Members of this House and the staff of this House, I want to ask when can a Member have an opportunity of raising this very important matter in Debate?
§ Mr. KIRKWOODIs it not a fact that, if all the Members who owe the Kitchen Committee money for the food of which they have partaken in the Dining Room were to pay up, we should be able to give the workers who work under us, such as waiters, better conditions than we do?
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe hon. Member ought to put that question down.
§ Mr. LANSBURYSeeing that there is no Estimate that I know of for the Kitchen Committee, I wish to ask how can a Member of this House bring this matter to the attention of the House.?
§ Mr. SPEAKERSome years ago there was an annual subsidy for the Kitchen Committee, and that, of course, gave an opportunity in Committee of Supply for discussion. But that subsidy has been withdrawn and there is no public money now involved. Therefore, I doubt if such a discussion would be in order, even on the Consolidated Fund Bill. This is a new point to me, and if the hon. Member will allow me, I will consider whether there is any other way of raising this matter.
§ Mr. SPENCERAre you aware that private people, who have servants, when they go on holidays not only pay them their usual wages, but very often give them an allowance as well while they are away. And if private people can do that, surely the House of Commons can treat its servants in the same way!
§ Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHYThere has been a very serious accusation made by the hon. Member for Dumbarton (Mr. Kirkwood) with regard to unpaid accounts. May I ask the Chairman of the Kitchen Committee if there is any foundation for that accusation?
§ Mr. SPEAKERQuestions of that kind do not arise out of the question on the Paper.
§ Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHYWith great respect, may I point out that all this will appear in the public papers to-morrow, and it will be supposed that Members of this House, including the Members of the Government, are in debt to the Kitchen Committee. Cannot we get this matter cleared up?
§ Sir J. AGG-GARDNERThe accounts are always paid at the end of the Session. There may be a little dilatoriness about it, but ultimately the accounts are always paid.
§ Mr. J. JONESMay I ask the Chair man of the Kitchen Committee whether the rumour is true which is going round the House that one Member of the House owes the Kitchen Committee no less than £72, extending over a period of three months?
§ Sir J. AGG-GARDNERThat is quite untrue. There is no foundation for it at all.
§ Mr. SPEAKERIt is very unfortunate that such innuendoes should be made without the hon. Member satisfying himself about them. I have undertaken to see if there is any way in which the House of Commons can deal with this matter. It might be desirable that, in future, a token Vote should be put down, which would leave control with the House. I will see what can be done. I think the House should have some opportunity.
§ Mr. W. THORNEWould it be possible to have the defaulters' list posted up in the House every week?
§ Mr. SPEAKERI think we have given quite enough time to this question.
§ Colonel DAYA lot of people will go hungry during the Recess.