HC Deb 17 December 1925 vol 189 cc1594-7
13. Mr. T. KENNEDY

asked the Minister of Pensions whether, seeing that the pensions office in Edinburgh only issues one interim award in every 300 cases of pension in payment and that at Acton an interim award is issued in one out of every 100 cases, he will arrange for officers from Acton to be sent to Edinburgh for training in the economical and efficient methods of the Edinburgh office and will retain the Scotland office instead of centralising awards and issue of pensions at Acton?

Major TRYON

As I stated in the answer I gave to the hon. Member on the 10th instant, interim awards are not made by the Issue Office, but by the Awards branches. They are largely caused by circumstances over which the Ministry has no control. In regard to the last part of the question, the hon. Member does not seem to be aware that the Scotland Issue Office work under instructions issued from London, and that the staff was originally trained by officers specially sent from London.

Mr. KENNEDY

Will the same principle apply in other cases?

Major TRYON

No, because there is no other example of a separate issue office.

27. Mr. KENNEDY

asked the Minister of Pensions whether, in view of the pro-posed transfer of the issue office of the Ministry of Pensions at Edinburgh to Acton, he is aware that the cost of staff per case at Edinburgh is 5s. 8d. as compared with 9s. 4d. at Acton; and whether, as the transfer would involve an additional expenditure of approximately £200,000, he will, in the interests of economy and efficiency, retain the pension issue office at Edinburgh?

Major TRYON

For the reasons which I indicated in my reply to the hon. Member on the 10th instant, I am unable to accept the figures quoted by him in the earlier part of the question as a fair comparison. The conclusion at which the hon. Member has arrived of increased cost if issue office, Edinburgh, be transferred to London is, I am pleased to have the opportunity of stating, the reverse of the fact. The bulk of the work now undertaken by the staff in the issue office, Edinburgh, could be absorbed into the Acton organisation with a definite decrease in the present cost of the two offices and, consequently, the transfer would result in economy.

Mr. N. MACLEAN

But has not the right hon. Gentleman informed us that there would be a definite decrease in the expenditure? To what extent is that definite decreased?

Major TRYON

I cannot say what will be the decrease. We have experience of centralisation with other branches of the pension work, and there has been a considerable reduction.

Mr. MACLEAN

It seems to be indefinite whether there will be a decrease; is that so?

Major TRYON

There is no doubt whatever there will be a decrease.

Captain WEDGWOOD BENN

Does the reply of the Minister mean that it has been decided to transfer the whole Department to Acton?

Major TRYON

No, Sir. It only means that I was answering a legitimate question put to me by an hon. Member. The hon. and gallant Gentleman is aware that I have undertaken to ascertain the views of the advisory council before the decision is arrived at.

Mr. BUCHANAN

Will the right hon. Gentleman say whether he will take into consideration the views of the Scottish Members of Parliament?

Major TRYON

I shall, of course, be happy to do so. In some cases it is a point whether it is not for the convenience of Scottish Members of Parliament, whether the cases should go to Edinburgh or come to London where Scottish Members of Parliament are carrying on their Parliamentary duties.

Mr. BUCHANAN

On that subject, might I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he would consider consulting the Scottish Members on this point, as well as the advisory committee, to ascertain their views, seeing they have done an amount of pension work?

Major TRYON

Of course I shall be happy to do anything to keep in touch with the views of Scottish Members.

Mr. KENNEDY

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Scottish Advisory Committee is definitely opposed to the transfer?

Major TRYON

I should like to have notice of that question. I know, however, that some of our leading critics are of opinion that centralisation is inevitable.

Mr. LAWSON

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that most of the people for whom the regions exist are definitely against centralisation?

Mr. SPEAKER

We cannot now debate the question.