HC Deb 14 December 1925 vol 189 cc970-4
76. Mr. DENNISON

asked the President of the Board of Education whether he is aware that it is estimated that an additional 2½d. in the £ in the county rate of Warwickshire will be required to maintain the existing services if Circular 1371 is applied; and, having regard to the already high rates, will he withdraw the circular in this area?

77. Mr. CHARLES EDWARDS

asked the President of the Board of Education whether he has received a letter from the Monmouthshire Education Committee protesting against Circular 1371 which has been issued; whether he is aware that certain parts of the county are in such financial difficulties that the guardians are unable to meet the county precepts; that in the Bedwellty Union alone the arrears are no less than £93,700; that, if the circular is enforced, it will mean a loss of at least £21,000, and that an additional rate of nearly 5d. in the £ will be required to cover it; and whether he will consider the withdrawal of the circular?

78. Mr. J. BAKER

asked the President of the Board of Education if he is aware of the fact that the Coseley Education Authority, at the instigation of the Board of Education, entered into commitments which were sanctioned by the Board, but which cannot be carried out if Circular 1371 is to be enforced, and that the Coseley Education Committee has been compelled to suspend further consideration of its educational programme for the next three years, seeing that the proposed limitation of grants proposed in Circular 1371 will involve an increase in local rates of 7d. in the £; and whether, in order to help this and other authorities similarly situated, he is prepared to withdraw or amend Circular 1371?

The PRESIDENT of the BOARD of EDUCATION (Lord Eustace Percy)

With the permission of the hon. Members, I will answer these three questions together. I would refer the hon. Members to the reply given by me on 10th December to the right hon. Member for Newcastle Central (Mr. Trevelyan) and other hon. Members, copies of which I am sending them. I would add that I have received the letter from the Monmouthshire Authority referred to by the hon. Member for Bedwellty.

80 Mr. LUNN

asked the President of the Board of Education (l) how many children under the age of five years are attending the elementary schools in the West Riding of Yorkshire, and the money he estimates he will save in one year year under the new system of grants suggested by Circular 1371;

(2) how many children under the age of five years are attending the elementary schools in the City of Lends, and the money he estimates he will save in one year under the new system of grants suggested by Circular 1371;

(3) how many children under the age of five years are attending the elementary schools in the city of Wakefield, and the money he estimates he will save in one year under the new system of grants suggested By Circular 1371?

Lord E. PERCY

With the hon. Member's permission I will answer his three questions together. On the 31ST March, 1925, the number of pupils, aged under five, on the registers of public elementary schools in these areas was:

West Riding (area under the County Council) … 10,248
Leeds … 6,764
Wakefield … 687
As regards the second part of each Question, I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given by me on 10th December to the hon. Member for Middlesbrough West (Mr. T. Thomson), a copy of which I am sending him.

Mr. LUNN

Would it not be better for the Noble Lord to answer the question on the Paper? It is a specific question referring to a specific case. Why not answer the question which is down instead of evading it by referring to something else which is nothing whatever to do with it?

Lord E. PERCY

If the hon. Member would look at the answer to which I have referred him he will see that his remarks are wide of the mark.

83. Mr. AMMON

asked the President of the Board of Education whether he will give the numbers for the years 1917, 1918, 1919, and 1920, respectively, of children under five years of age who were in attendance at public elementary schools?

Lord E. PERCY

The numbers of children, aged under five years, on the registers of public elementary schools were as follows:

[Lord E. Percy.]
31st January, 1917 … … 231,963
31st January, 1918 … … 232,684
31st January, 1919 … … 221,633
31st March, 1920 … … 186,583

Mr. COVE

Have these numbers not decreased because of the lack of school buildings? It is no answer at all!

Lord E. PERCY

That is a matter of opinion, but I should say certainly not.

Mr. COVE

Then you do not know much about it!

84. Mr. RENNIE SMITH

asked the President of the Beard of Education if his attention has been called to a resolution passed by the West Riding of Yorkshire Education Committee objecting to the financial proposals contained in Circular 1371, pointing out that it would be extremely unwise to attempt to exclude young children from school unless and until adequate provision of some other type is made for their welfare, and asking for the withdrawal of the Circular unless serious modifications are made; and, if so, what action he proposes to take?

Lord E. PERCY

My attention has been called to the resolution referred to. As regards the second part of the question, I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given by me on 3rd December to the hon. Member for Lambeth North (Mr. Briant), a copy of which I am sending him.

87. Lord H. CAVENDISH-BENTINCK

asked the President of the Board of Education whether the Board of Education will allow the grant of 30s. in respect of children under five years of age when the social conditions of the area point to the desirability of admitting such children to school?

Lord E. PERCY

My noble Friend will see from the note on page 4 of the Circular that I have had in mind the particular consideration to which he refers, and I am quite ready to discuss with any local authority the details of the new proposals in their application to the special conditions of their area.

Mr. R. MORRISON

Would the Noble Lord say whether the 30s. fine is going to be imposed upon children under five attending nursery schools in addition to the children under five in the elementary schools?

Lord E. PERCY

This is merely the equivalent of the withdrawal of children under five in average attendance on the registers, precisely as children under three are now withdrawn.

89. Mr. MORRISON

also asked the President of the Board of Education, in view of the fact that there are still 96,000 defective children attending elementary schools because of the lack of special school accommodation and 22,000 defective children not attending any school, and in view of the request of the Board in January last that suitable provision should be made for these children, whether, seeing that under the provisions of Circular 1371 it will be impossible for local education authorities to make such provision without the local ratepayers bearing the whole cost, he will reconsider the Circular in respect to special school developments?

Lord E. PERCY

The particular problem, to which the hon. Member refers, is essentially one to be dealt with through the medium of the programmes which I have asked authorities to submit to me. I cannot, of course, accept the assumption upon which he bases his suggestion, and in any case, as he is aware, I have arranged to discuss with local authorities the effect of the grants proposed under the Circular.

Mr. MORRISON

Has the Noble Lord seen statements already in the Press that in various districts schools for special children are being abandoned by the local education authorities because of his Circular?

Lord E. PERCY

There is no reason why any project should be abandoned before it has been submitted to me and approved. It was always my intention, if not always quite clearly understood, that I should consider far-reaching commitments of this kind in full and comprehensive programmes and not piecemeal.

Mr. COVE

Are we to understand that they will be considered on the basis of a percentage grant, or on a rationing system of grant?