§ 29. Mr. MARDY JONESasked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury what is the approximate total capital value or, alternatively, the approximate total annual value of all Crown property used for public purposes throughout England and Wales?
Mr. GUINNESSI regret that no figures are available showing the approximate total capital value, or the total annual value, of all Crown property in England and Wales used for public purposes. The information could not be procured without a long and laborious investigation, and I should not feel justified in incurring the expense.
§ Mr. JONESIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Committee upstairs decided that Crown property should be rated, and that it is of vital importance that people should have definite data as to the approximate capital or annual values, otherwise we cannot seriously debate that question on its merits, and will he undertake to give us some approximate figures in the autumn?
Mr. GUINNESSI shall certainly prepare whatever information is relevant to the subject when the matter is debated.
§ Mr. JONESDo I understand we shall have available for consideration before we debate it on the Report stage such information as we require?
§ Mr. BARKERIn view of the great importance of the question, and the interest taken in it by the rating and valuation committees, can the right hon. 1558 Gentleman supply this information so that we may know what we are discussing when the Bill comes before the House?
Mr. GUINNESSI do not think really the total capital value is necessary or relevant. What matters is rateable value, and rateable value can be found by hon. Members on reference to the Estimates. The rateable value of Government property covered by the annual Vote for rates on such property amounts to £2,630,000, and there are also other charges in other Votes, for instance, on the Post Office Vote and the Police Vote, for those rateable contributions which are not included in the main Vote.
§ Mr. JONESDoes the right hon. Gentleman not realise that his last answer proves the urgent need of the information for which we are asking? The complaint against Government Departments has always been that they put their own value on what is rateable value. [HON. MEMBERS: "Speech"!] I do want a definite undertaking that we are going to get the information that is required.
Mr. GUINNESSThe hon. Member is now asking for something quite different from that which is in his question.
§ Mr. KIRKWOODArising out of a former reply on this question, the right hon. Gentleman said he thought it was quite unnecessary to get the capital value of Government property. We hold that we have a right to get this question answered, because, as can be seen, this side is interested. [HON. MEMBERS: "Order!"] The Government want to know where it is going to get money from, and—
§ Mr. SPEAKERWe cannot now debate the matter. I thought the hon. Member rose to put a further question on the subject. I notice that the question on the Paper asks for "the approximate total capital value or, alternatively, the approximate total annual value."
§ Mr. JONESI fear the right hon. Gentleman has misunderstood the question. The point we have put is that it is quite impossible—the right hon. Gentleman may smile as much as he likes—to ascertain what is the rateable value without knowing the annual value.
§ Mr. KIRKWOODSurely that is allowed?
§ Mr. JONESWill the right hon. Gentleman give an undertaking that, when we resume in the autumn, we shall have a statement approximately correct of the rateable value and annual value of Crown property used for public purposes?