§ The LORD PRIVY SEAL (Mr. Clynes)I beg to move,
That during the remainder of the Session—In submitting this Motion to the House, I think there are only two or three sentences of explanation needed. Assuming that the Motion be carried, it will give to the Government precedence for Government business, but, of course, I give the House the assurance that they will not exercise that precedence on the particular day which may be set apart for the discussion of the question which has just been raised. At the beginning of an Autumn Session it has been customary to submit such a Motion as this, and on each occasion it has been carried. It has become technically necessary because of ambiguity in the Standing Orders. I need not now quote, but I am advised that the passing of such a Motion as this is essential if the business of the Irish Bill is to be considered, say, on Wednesday evening of this week, and, if necessary, on Friday also of this week. In view of these facts, I ask the House to pass this Motion.
- (1) Government Business do have precedence;
- (2) At the conclusion of Government, Business or of Proceedings made in pursuance of any Act of Parliament requiring any Order, Rule, or Regulation to be laid before the House of Commons, which shall be taken immediately after Government Business, Mr. Speaker shall propose the Question, That this House do now adjourn, and, if that Question shall not have been agreed to, Mr. Speaker shall adjourn the House, without Question put, not later than one hoer after the conclusion of Government Business, if that Business has been concluded before 10.30 p.m., but, if that Business has not been so concluded, not later than 11.30 p.m.;
- (3) If the day be a Friday the House, unless it otherwise resolves, shall at its rising stand adjourned until the following Monday."
Mr. ASOUITHI do not understand the necessity for this Motion in the form in which it appears on the Paper. This Motion purports to deal with the whole of the remainder of the Session. If it were confined to a little bit—whatever you care to call it!—of the Session, I think 18 there would he general agreement. Then, when we reassemble in October, the Government could bring in a Motion dealing with the rest of the Session. I do not know what precise form of words may be desirable, but they might be "until the Irish Bill is disposed of," or "until 25th October." I think that would receive the assent of the House. We should not then be parting with the whole time of private Members.
§ Mr. HOGGEThe objection to this kind of Motion from the private Members' point of view has been expressed before, and I think ought to be expressed again. I should very much like the Leader of the House to tell us since when this form of Motion was introduced. I remember it as one of the various forms introduced during the period, of the Tear in order to prevent long discussions after Government business had been disposed of, but if private Members will look at the second paragraph of this Resolution they will see that it deprives them of their ordinary rights to raise any question for more than an hour after Government business is finished. For example, Government business may be finished at 6 o'clock or 7 o'clock on any day, that time being before 10.30, and the Adjournment Motion must be disposed of within the hour. This deprives Members of this House, who have very few private rights left, of the opportunities left for discussing questions which interest them for a longer period. While agree with my right hon. Friend that we have met for a discussion of an Irish question, I venture to point out to private Members, as one of themselves, that they are doing themselves a great disservice if they part with this right of limiting Adjournment Motions to one hour before 10.30. I feel so strongly about this that I shall certainly, if necessary, divide upon it.
§ Mr. CLYNESWe have had such Motions as this carried repeatedly in previous Parliaments.
§ Mr. CLYNESFor many years past.
§ Mr. CLYNESThey have been passed under an agreement that, if the House has to be assembled for work in the autumn, 19 it shall be for some great, special, definite work of urgent public importance, and not in order that private Members should have the same facilities—[HON. MEMBERS: "Why not?"]—as they have in other parts of the Session. In this matter the Labour Government have not established a precedent. They are following one. I can quote statements from my right hon. Friend the Member for West Birmingham (Mr. A. Chamberlain) and from the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Paisley (Mr. Asquith) submitting to this House in preceding Sessions similar Motions to the Motion which I now ask should be passed. I have not the slightest objection to meeting the wishes expressed by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Paisley, and if you will permit it, Mr. Speaker, perhaps we might insert two words in the opening line of the Resolution, and the Resolution would then read
That, during the remainder of this special Session or Sitting"—May I further say that the reason for submitting a Motion now is that if it be not carried we should not he able to take Wednesday or Friday for the Irish business; but if this Resolution be passed then the House may take it that when we assemble on 28th October a statement would be made on Government business for the Autumn Session, and no doubt some opportunities would arise for discussion.
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe words proposed would not be technically correct. The proper way to put it would be to move to leave out the words "during the remainder of the Session," and to insert instead thereof the words "until 28th October."
§ Mr. BUCHANANOn a point of Order. May I point out to the right hon. Gentleman that, while it is quite true that this Session is called for the special purpose and not for private Members' business, that if he will remember the day we adjourned, although a private Members' day, was very largely taken up by Members with a discussion upon Russia, therefore, that is all the more reason why private Members ought to have some time in this special sitting than we are likely to have according to present arrangements. Some of us feel that certain questions arising in the 20 country are as important as either Ireland or Russia. There are one or two things of the greatest importance to people in my constituency, and I want to have the chance and the opportunity to have them discussed.
§ Mr. CLYNESWe have agreed, not to a breach of the truce: we have agreed to some variation of the understanding unanimously reached in order that the Government might meet a challenge which has been pressed upon it from all sides of the House. That is, I say, a question which stands in a totally different position from any of the ordinary questions.
Sir F. HALLThere is one point I should like to put. According to the speech of the Lord Privy Seal this House gives away its rights whenever there is an Autumn Session, which is to be allocated entirely to Government business. If some protest is not made against the speech of the right hon. Gentleman it may be quoted hereafter that in the House of Commons, on 30th Septemeber, 1924, such an arrangement meant that the whole of Autumn Sessions should be given up to Government business. Having made that protest, I should be compelled to vote against the Motion unless the Lord Privy Seal makes it perfectly plain to the House that it is not his desire to leave private Members without any right, whatever in Autumn Sessions.
§ Colonel GRETTONI beg to move, in line 1, to leave out the words "during the remainder of the Session," and to insert instead thereof the words "until the twenty-eighth day of October."
May I point out that on previous occasions when the Government have asked for the whole time of the House it has always been customary to make a statement of the business which they propose to place before the House, and then leave the House to judge whether hon. Members are willing to give up their time in order to carry that programme through. I think we ought to he told what the intention of the Government is on this point.
§ Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHYI beg to second the Amendment.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ Main Question, as amended, again proposed.
21§ Mr. JAMES HOPEI want to ask the Leader of the House whether it is the intention of this Motion to have the effect of stopping all Private Business for the rest of the Session, or whether the right of the Chairman of Ways and Means to put down an opposed Bill at 8.15 will be preserved.
§ Mr. CLYNESWe shall follow precedent in this matter. I am not aware that there will be any interference with the rights of the Chairman of Ways and Means.
§ Mr. MACLEANAre we to understand that opposed Private Business is going to be brought forward in this House, and that the time we are consenting to give now is going to be handed over to private interests? The reply of the Deputy-Leader of the House seems to be rather vague on this point.
§ Mr. SPEAKERThis Motion does not affect the Chairman of Ways and Means either one way or the other, and the Bales with regard to the conduct of Private Business remain quite apart from this Motion.
§ Mr. LANSBURYWill it be in order for the Chairman of Ways and Means to put down Private Business during this short period when we have been called together in order to do a piece of special work?
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe Bills referred to by the hon. Member have already been postponed until the 9th October.
§ Mr. DENNIS HERBERTAre we quite certain that it will be possible for the promise which has been made by the Leader of the House to be carried out, namely, that we are to give a full day to the discussion of the subject which has been raised at Question Time?
§ Mr. SPEAKERAll that would be required would be to put down a Motion between the Government Orders of the day.
§ Main Question, as amended, put, and agreed to.
§
Ordered,
That, until the twenty-eighth day of October—