HC Deb 29 May 1924 vol 174 cc610-4
Mr. BALDWIN

May I ask the Lord Privy Seal what is the business for next week?

Mr. CLYNES

On Monday, the Agricultural Wages Bill, Second Reading; and the County Courts Bill, Report and Third Reading.

Tuesday: Housing—Money Resolution in Committee of the Whole House.

Wednesday: Report of Supplementary Estimates for League of Nations, Air Services, and Fishery Board for Scotland; China Indemnity (Application) Bill, Second Reading; Report of Housing Money Resolution.

Thursday: Small Debts (Scotland) Bill, Report and Third Reading; Pensions Increase Money Resolution in Committee of the Whole House; Carriage of Goods by Sea Bill, Second Reading; Lead Paint (Protection against Poisoning) Bill, Second Reading.

I would like to say that the main Government proposals for housing will be contained in the Housing Bill, which will be brought in on the completion of the Money Resolution. Supplementary proposals, which, however, form an integral part of the Government housing scheme, will be brought forward in a Bill to prevent excessive charges for building materials and to make provision for securing an adequate supply of such materials and for other purposes incidental thereto. It is proposed to introduce this Bill next week in time to enable it to be circulated to Members at the same time as the main Housing Bill.

Mr. BALDWIN

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, on last Thursday, he said the Agricultural Wages Bill would not be taken before Whitsuntide?

Mr. CLYNES

I do not think I definitely said that. My recollection is that I gave a conditional answer.

Mr. BALDWIN

The right hon. Gentleman was asked by an hon. Member, When is it the intention of the Government to introduce the Agricultural Wages Bill?

To that the right hon. Gentleman replied: Not before the Whitsuntide Recess.

Mr. CLYNES

Of course, the Leader of the Opposition well knows that intentions in these matters have occasionally to be varied, but, so far as we know, there has been no objection made to the Bill being taken next week.

Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHY

What is the objection?

Sir WILLIAM JOYNSON-HICKS

Will the Minister of Health, in introducing the Financial Resolution, give a full outline of his housing scheme, and does not the right hon. Gentleman see how exceedingly inconvenient it would be to discuss the mere financial details without knowing the scheme which is to be the foundation of those details?

Mr. CLYNES

Certainly. The procedure I have outlined is the one we were advised to take, and I hope Mr. Speaker be able to permit that course to be taken.

Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKS

Would it be possible to have the Bill printed beforehand? In a complicated matter of this kind the right hon. Gentleman must see the difficulty of discussing a housing scheme on a Financial Resolution.

Mr. CLYNES

I am not certain that the Government could have the Bill printed before the Money Resolution is disposed of.

Mr. HOPE

Would it not be possible to print the Bill as a White Paper?

Mr. MASTERMAN

If the Money Resolution is not to be in Committee of Ways and Means, but in Committee of the Whole House, surely every precedent guides us to the belief that we should see the Bill before the Money Resolution is taken. Is it not the case that Bills are circulated with the Money Resolution printed in the Bill and then the Money Resolution is taken, unless it arises in Committee of Ways and Means?

Mr. CLYNES

I hesitate to express a definite opinion upon a point which is one of the history of procedure, but we shall do our best to place the fullest information before the House at the earliest possible opportunity.

Mr. E. BROWN

Can the right hon. Gentleman say when these financial Papers will be circulated for the use of Members, as promised by the Minister of Health? He promised them when the Bill was introduced, and I want to know whether the Papers will be laid before the Resolution is introduced. Surely we cannot discuss the Resolution without the Papers.

Mr. CLYNES

The Resolution will be on the Order Paper to-morrow, and, as I have said, I think the answer to the last question is covered in my previous reply that there will be no delay in circulating the information.

Sir K. WOOD

Will the right hon. Gentleman undertake to circulate it at the end of this week, so that Members can have a reasonable opportunity of considering it?

Mr. CLYNES

We will take, in this matter, whatever is the usual course, and the information will be circulated as speedily as possible.

Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKS

On a point of Order. May I ask your guidance and help in this matter, Mr. Speaker? You will realise, I am sure, the great desirability of the House having the fullest details of the housing scheme before discussing the financial question, and would it not be possible for the Bill to be introduced and read the First time, and then for the Financial Resolution to he taken in Committee of the whole House?

Mr. SPEAKER

A draft Bill was submitted to me, and I felt obliged to rule that it was so largely a money matter that it must originate in Committee of the Whole House, and that is the reason for the procedure now announced. It is not one of those cases where the finance is merely a matter of one Clause, in which the Resolution can be taken after Second Reading of the Bill. In this case, it is almost wholly finance, and the proper procedure is that just announced by the Deputy-Leader of the House.

Sir W. MITCHELL-THOMSON

Would it not be in accordance with precedent that the Bill should be circulated as a White Paper before the Financial Resolution is taken?

Mr. SPEAKER

There may be a precedent for that course. I cannot say it is a usual course, but it is a possible course, if the Government can adopt it.

Sir K. WOOD

Inasmuch as this draft Bill is in existence and has already been submitted to you, Mr. Speaker, why cannot it be available to Members of this House at once?

Mr. SPEAKER

I think the hon. Member must not presume on what I have said. Where the opinion of the Chair is taken on a point of Order, it is customary to submit to it a draft. I do not know in the least whether the form of the Bill shown to me is the form in which it will be presented to the House. It may have been a preliminary draft. All that I had to do was to rule on what was submitted to me.

Mr. PRINGLE

Cannot the Deputy-Leader of the House arrange to have the Bill circulated as a White Paper?

Mr. CLYNES

I think that can be done; but I cannot positively commit myself to it. If it be practicable, it shall be done.

Viscount CURION

If the Government happen to be in office after Whitsuntide, can the Deputy-Leader of the House say whether we shall have an opportunity of discussing Lord Lee's Report on the Indian Civil Service?

Mr. SPEAKER

The Noble. Lord has made his own question hypothetical.

Sir FREDRIC WISE

In regard to Thursday's business, the Lead Paint Bill comes last on the list. Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that it is very controversial, and that there is sure to be a big Debate on it?

Mr. CLYNES

We anticipate that on Thursday there will be a disposition to dispose of more business than usual.

Mr. PERCY HARRIS

Is it not a fact that the London County Council (Money) Bill is down for next Tuesday at 8.15, and will the right hon. Gentleman see that it is not allowed to interfere with the discussion on the Housing Bill?

Mr. CLYNES

That is not the case.