HC Deb 21 May 1924 vol 173 cc2371-4

I beg to move, in page 1, line 8, after the word "indirectly" to insert the word "charges."

I propose to move a further Amendment, leaving out the words "certain charges, including the several charges specified in the Schedule to this Act."

The amended Preamble would then read: Imposed, or purported to impose, directly or indirectly, charges by way of payments," etc. I think that will meet the purpose of the hon. and learned Member for Central Bristol.


I do not think it will, because the Bill is framed with a Schedule. If the right hon. Gentleman will accept my suggestion he will achieve his purpose and it will be done in proper form.


If the hon. and learned Member will move his Amendment, I will withdraw mine.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.


I beg to move, in page 1, line 16, to leave out the words "certain charges, including." The Preamble would then read: Whereas during the late war certain Government Departments … imposed,

or purported to impose, directly or indirectly, by way of payments … the several charges specified in the Schedule to this Act,"

Then the subject will know that the only charges legalised by this Act are specified in the Schedule. The defence for this Bill is that the charges which are legalised are charges which ought to have been made, and the resistance to them has no merit in it. We know what are the merits or demerits of the charges that are actually mentioned, but we do not know what the merits or demerits are when we do not know what the charges are.


I am sorry, but I cannot take the responsibility of accepting this Amendment. The Bill was framed in general terms to cover all the charges of this nature. The charges were invalidated by the judgment in tie milk case. The Bill has been drafted to meet a definite thing—namely, the invalidation of certain charges of this nature. The late Government, and the Government before the late Government, thought it necessary to bring in a Bill in general words validating these charges. We have done the same, and now that we have got to the last stage I am asked to agree to cut down the Bill so that it shall not apply generally to all these cases, but shall apply only to those specified in the Schedule. I would ask the Committee to leave the Bill in the form in which it has been brought in by three successive Governments. Simply because we have put in a Schedule to make the Bill more intelligible to people, that is no reason for limiting the Bill in the way now suggested. I would ask the right hon. Gentleman to withdraw his Amendment, but if he will not do so I must ask the Committee to reject it.

Question put, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Preamble."

The Committee divided: Ayes, 93; Noes, 54.

Division No. 77.] AYES. [12.7 a.m.
Adamson, Rt. Hon. William Benn, Captain Wedgwood (Leith) Climie, R.
Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) Black, J. W. Cluse, W. S.
Alexander, A. V. (Sheffield, Hillsbro') Broad, F. A. Compton, Joseph
Alstead, R. Bromfield, William Costello, L. W. J.
Ayles, W. H. Buckle, J. Crittall, V. G.
Baker, Walter Charleton, H. C. Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton)
Barnes, A. Clarke, A. Dickie, Captain J. P.
Dickson, T. Kennedy, T. Sherwood, George Henry
Dunnico, H. Law, A. Smith, Ben (Bermondsey, Rotherhithe)
Edwards, C. (Monmouth, Bedwellty) Lawson, John James Smith, W. R. (Norwich)
Edwards, G. (Norfolk, Southern) Leach, W. Stephen, Campbell
Egan, W. H. Livingstone, A. M. Sutherland, Rt. Hon. Sir William
Emlyn-Jones, J. E. (Dorset, N.) Loverseed, J. F. Thompson, Piers G. (Torquay)
Finney, V. H. Lunn, William Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton, E.)
Gardner, B. W. (West Ham, Upton) Macfadyen, E. Tinker, John Joseph
George, Major G. L. (Pembroke) Maclean, Neil (Glasgow, Govan) Toole, J.
Gillett, George M. Marley, James Tout, W. J.
Gosling, Harry Martin, F. (Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, E.) Varley, Frank B.
Gould, Frederick (Somerset, Frome) Martin, W. H. (Dumbarton) Warne, G. H.
Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) Watson, W. M. (Dunfermline)
Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) O'Grady, Captain James Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda)
Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) Parkinson, John Allen (Wigan) Webb, Lieut.-Col. Sir H. (Cardiff, E.)
Hamilton, Sir R. (Orkney & Shetland) Perry, S. F. Webb, Rt. Hon. Sidney
Hardie, George D. Phillipps, Vivian Welsh, J. C.
Hartshorn, Rt. Hon. Vernon Purcell, A. A. White, H. G. (Birkenhead, E.)
Hastings, Sir Patrick Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) Williams, Col. P. (Middlesbrough, E.)
Haycock, A. W. Ritson, J. Williams, Lt.-Col. T. S. B. (Kenningtn.)
Henderson, T. (Glasgow) Roberts, Rt. Hon. F. O. (W. Bromwich) Wilson, C. H. (Sheffield, Attercliffe)
Hudson, J. H. Robertson, J. (Lanark, Bothwell) Wright, W.
Jenkins, W. (Glamorgan, Neath) Samuel, H. Walter (Swansea, West)
John, William (Rhondda, West) Seely, Rt. Hon. Maj.-Gen. J. E. B. (I. of W.) TELLERS FOR THE AYES.
Jones, T. I. Mardy (Pontypridd) Sexton, James Mr. Spoor and Mr. Frederick Hall.
Aske, Sir Robert William Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry Nicholson, O. (Westminster)
Balfour, George (Hampstead) Harney, E. A. Nield, Rt. Hon. Sir Herbert
Barclay, R. Noton Hartington, Marquess of Oliver, P. M. (Manchester, Blackley)
Barnett, Major Richard W. Harvey, T. E. (Dewsbury) Pattinson, S. (Horncastle)
Bonwick, A. Inskip, Sir Thomas Walker H. Ramage, Captain Cecil Beresford
Bowyer, Capt. G. E. W. Jones, Rt. Hon. Leif (Camborne) Royle, C.
Courthope, Lieut.-Col. George L. Jowitt, W. A. (The Hartlepools) Simpson, J. Hope
Crooke, J. Smedley (Deritend) Keens, T. Spencer, H. H. (Bradford, S.)
Darbishire, C. W. King, Captain Henry Douglas Spero, Dr. G. E.
Dawson, Sir Philip Lamb, J. Q. Starmer, Sir Charles
Dixey, A. C. Lessing, E. Stranger, Innes Harold
Dodds, S. R. Lloyd, Cyril E. (Dudley) Thornton, Maxwell R.
England, Colonel A. McLean, Major A. Wise, Sir Frederic
Eyres-Monsell, Com. Rt. Hon. B. M. Maden, H. Wood, Major M. M. (Aberdeen, C.)
Falconer, J. Meyler, Lieut.-Colonel H. M. Yerburgh, Major Robert D. T.
Fletcher, Lieut.-Com. R. T. H. Millar, J. D.
Foot, Isaac Mond, H. TELLERS FOR THE NOES.
Greene, W. P. Crawford Nall, Lieut.-Colonel Sir Joseph Sir Courtenay Mansel and Sir Robert Kay.
Greenwood, William (Stockport) Nesbitt, Robert C.
Hacking, Captain Douglas H.

Preamble agreed to.

Bill reported; as amended, to be considered upon Monday next, and to be printed. [Bill 138.]

The remaining Orders were read, and postponed.

It being after half-past Eleven of the clock upon Wednesday evening, Mr. DEPUTY-SPEAKER adjourned the House, without Question put, pursuant to the Standing Order.

Adjourned at sixteen minutes after Twelve o'clock.