FORESTRY (TRANSFER OF WOODS) BILL. (Hansard, 7 May 1923)

§ The FINANCIAL SECRETARY to the TREASURY (Major Boyd-Carpenter)

I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a Second time."

9.0 P.M.

I hope this small and short Bill may have the happy fate of that which has been moved by my hon. Friend, because I think I can equally say, as he did, that this is entirely a non-controversial Bill. It is one to transfer to the Forestry Commission, which was set up by the Forestry Act of 1919, all those woods and forests which are at present under the management of the Commissioner of Woods. It is proposed to transfer them en bloc, because it is considered it would be wiser and more economical so to transfer them rather than to have a gradual and piecemeal transfer with the necessary onerous correspondence. It also proposes to transfer under Clause 2 all the operations in connection with forestry which hitherto have been carried on by the Development Commissioners under the Development and Road Improvement Funds Act, 1909, that is to say, all those grants which have hitherto been devoted under that Act to the improvement of forestry, knowledge of afforestation, and research. So that in one body, the Forestry Commissioners, eight in number, there shall be unity of control and, as it is hoped, considerable economies. It also puts in a reservation in Clause 1 (2) and in the Schedule to protect the amenities and the rights of the people of the country as regards some of those woods and forests 2045 which are to be so transferred. For instance, it protects the New Forest, which is represented, and rightly so, as one of our national playgrounds. Therefore there can be no interference there. Equally, there can be no interference with the ordinary common rights, although under the Bill these woods may be transferred to the Forestry Commission. These special protective conditions are put in the Bill so that there can be no apprehension on the part of those who are not unnaturally interested in the preservation of these rights and in seeing that the rights in themselves are being infringed.

There is another Clause which provides for the valuation of these portions of the Crown Lands and the Crown Woods and Forests by the Commissioners of Woods, so that in the event of the hereditary revenues of the Crown ever reverting to the Crown personally, the Crown's rights should be so safeguarded.

There is a Clause to alter, if it is considered necessary, the title of the Commissioners of Woods, in so far as their functions as affecting woods and forests are transferred to the Forestry Commission, because there are certain other duties pertaining to the Commissioners of Woods and Forests than those necessarily included in the transfer of these particular lands.

It is only right to say that if this Bill passes, 70,000 acres will be transferred. They exist in various parts of the country. There is the New Forest, the Forest of Dean, the Tintern Forest in Monmouthshire, Inverleven in Scotland, and several others, like the outlying woods of Windsor Great Forest, but they are too numerous to enumerate here.

There is one other Clause which is of some measure of interest. It suggests that Members of Parliament who, under the Acts of 1782 and 1801, are debarred from taking part in the participation of grants shall, unless they are Forestry Commissioners, be allowed that privilege. It is a small matter, but it is one of historical interest and, therefore, I mention it. Then there is one other Clause which deals with the conditions under grants given under the 1919 Act. Again I think it is a small matter, but it is my duty to mention it. Under the Forestry Act of 1919, all grants for the purpose of encouraging afforestation and the grow- 2046 ing of trees were given on the understanding that those to whom the grants were accorded, if they made a profit exceeding 4 per cent. compound interest return to the Exchequer—now, of course, it will be the Forestry Commission—any excess of those profits on exactly similar terms—4 per cent. compound interest. It was found after the 1919 Act was passed that the keeping of these accounts was not only onerous but extremely complicated and, as there was not the slightest possibility of any such profits accruing, in view of the fact that the profits could not accrue until the trees had been grown and felled 50 years hence, it was felt that the keeping of the accounts was unnecessary. Therefore, the subsequent Forestry Act of 1921 suspended the accounts for six months for that reason. It is now proposed in this Bill that they should be suspended altogether for the time being in view of the fact that there is nothing to come in for many years, and that the keeping of the accounts are an hindrance to the parties concerned and constitute a considerable waste of time.

I recommend the Bill with great humility to the House for Second Reading because it is a unifying and codifying Bill which will do some good. Possibly it will make things clearer by putting into the hands of one authority these very many subjects which it is just as well one representative authority should consider.

There is one further point, which is a minor point, and does not in itself affect the Bill. It is dealt with in Clause 6 and relates to the pension of a salaried Forestry Commissioner. There are only two Forestry Commissioners who are paid, but it might happen that in due course the Government of the day might consider it necessary to appoint a civil servant to be a Forestry Commissioner. If that civil servant retired from the office of Forestry Commissioner on the expiration of his term of office, while under the age of 60 years, he might find himself in a worse position in regard to pension because he had been selected to serve on the Forestry Commission. Therefore, it is proposed in Clause 6 that he, having been so appointed, should not be penalised but should be entitled to draw the pension which had accrued to him as a Forestry Commissioner rather than as a civil 2047 servant. I hope that this Bill will meet with general approval, as it is non-controversial.