§ 88. Sir JOHN BUTCHERasked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies who, by name, were the actual parties to the negotiations which took place in January, 1922, between the British Government and the Irish Free State, and which led up to the agreement described as Heads of Working Arrangements for implementing the Treaty (Command Paper 1911); and will he explain why, having regard to the terms of this agreement, which involve, amongst other things, the handing over to the Irish Free State without payment of millions of pounds worth of property belonging to the British Government and the abolition of the vested statutory rights of British subjects to compensation for injuries to property, such arrangements were carried out without legislative sanction?
§ The UNDER-SECRETARY of STATE for the COLONIES (Mr. Ormsby-Gore)In reply to the first part of the question, the parties to the agreement referred to were, on behalf of the British Government, the then Secretary of State for the Colonies, the then Secretary of State for India, and the Chief Secretary for Ireland, and, on behalf of the Irish Free State, Mr. Michael Collins, Mr. E. J. Duggan, and Mr. Kevin O'Higgins. In reply to the second part of the question, the necessary sanction of Parliament to the handing over to the Provisional 2498 Government of the machinery of government was duly obtained in the Irish Free State (Agreement) Act, 1922, while, as regards the abolition of vested rights to compensation, this is a matter within the jurisdiction of the Parliament of the Irish Free State as established by the Irish Free State Constitution Act, 1923.
§ Sir J. BUTCHERDo I understand that this was done under the authority of an Act passed by this House?
§ Mr. ORMSBY-GOREYes, the Act I quoted yesterday, cap. 4 of last year—31st March, 1922.
§ Sir HENRY CRAIKDid not the Order in Council referred to in that Section refer only to questions about elections?
§ Mr. ORMSBY-GOREThere was an enormously long Schedule of all the different Departments of Government which were transferred as from a particular date to the then Provisional Government.
§ Mr. J. JONESWill similar questions be allowed regarding the administration of affairs in Northern Ireland?
§ Mr. ORMSBY-GOREThis is not a question of administration, but of what historically happened at the time of the handing over in the last Parliament.
§ Sir J. BUTCHERWas there anything in the Schedule to authorise the handing over of valuable property belonging to this country to the new Irish Free State?
§ Mr. ORMSBY-GOREYes, that is exactly what happened.
§ 89. Sir J. BUTCHERasked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies what is the value of the Departmental offices, furniture, equipment, and other Departmental assets, etc., of the Chief Secretary's lodge and other official residences, and of the police barracks and establishments, and of the military establishments and moveables in military establishments, and of the police transport and other equipment, which have been handed over and transferred to the Free State Government under the terms of the Agreement of January, 1922 (Command Paper 1,911); whether he can state by virtue of what authority the British negotiators of that Agreement agreed to hand over to the Irish Free State, without payment, millions of pounds' worth of property 2499 belonging to the British Government; and why such Agreement was kept secret and was never submitted to the House of Commons for approval or rejection?
§ Mr. ORMSBY-GOREThe legislative sanction for the transfer of the machinery of Government to the Provisional Government will be found in Section 2 of the Irish Free State (Agreement) Act, 1922, and in Article 12 of the Provisional Government (Transfer of Functions) Order, 1922, made thereunder, and in view of the fact that these provisions came before Parliament in the usual manner there is no foundation for the suggestion in the last part of the hon. and learned Member's question. No valuation of the property so transferred was made prior to transfer.
§ Sir J. BUTCHERWhy was not this Agreement, which was made in January, 1922, communicated to the House until July, 1923?
§ Mr. ORMSBY-GOREThat is nothing to do with me. I was not a member of the Government.
§ Mr. MACPHERSONIs it proposed now to make a valuation of the property?
§ Mr. ORMSBY-GORENo, certainly not. It would be quite impracticable. I do not think there is any precedent for valuation when one Government has handed over to another. It is handed over as a going concern.