HC Deb 17 July 1923 vol 166 cc2115-8

The power given to the Secretary of State by this Act to raise money by means of stock or other securities shall be deemed to include the power to provide for redemption of stock or securities at a premium, and the power to arrange for giving an option (subject to such conditions and on such terms as he may determine, and with or without payment of any further consideration) to holders of stock or securities to take new stock or securities in lieu thereof and to create stock or securities for the purpose, and any stock or securities surrendered for the purpose of exchange shall be cancelled. Any stock or securities created for the purpose of an exchange under this Section shall not be taken into account in calculating the nominal amount of securities authorised to be issued under this Act.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill."

Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHY

This Clause seems rather to reinforce what the hon. Gentleman who has just sat down said in regard to the previous Clause. It seems that we have a right to veto the Government of India on these matters in regard to loans, and according to this Clause we can interfere with the terms on which they give securities. What is contained in this Clause seems to me to be rather a survival of the days of Warren Hastings. It seems to me to be putting unnecessary details in the Bill to deal with such questions as how they should make arrangements for paying these loans.


It is only permissive.

Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHY

That only accentuates the fact that we are still exercising these powers of veto over India finance. I do not want to oppose the Clause, but I am not quite certain, for instance, whether the Australian Loan is a trustee security or not.


Only under certain circumstances.

Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY

I believe Canadian loans are trustee securities. We do not have Bills like this for our Dominions, and I think this rather accentuates what I have endeavoured to point out, that they are quite out of date. I hope it will not be many years before they are declared to be undesirable.


This has nothing whatever to do with imposing any restrictions on the Government of India. As I explained previously, the Secretary of State has general responsibility. It is necessary to publish certain conditions in the Bill which will make the stock of a certain character. It is not a question of imposing restrictions on the Government of India, but it is a matter of carrying out its ordinary financial policy. Clause 6 provides power for exchanging one form of security for another, but there is nothing whatever to restrict, in the sense of taking away, any rights which the hon. and gallant Gentleman thinks the Government of India or the people of India may have. The Secretary of State is the authority responsible for raising the loan in this country and the Clause simply prescribes that the ordinary methods may be adopted.

Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY

I suppose if I were to say to the Noble Lord, "You can go out of that door across Palace Yard," he would be properly annoyed, but it is the sort of thing which is indicated by this particular Clause.

Clauses 7 (Transfer books of Capital Stock), 8 (Nominal amount of securities to be issued), 9 (Application of enactments 56 and 57 Vic. c. 70), 10 (Saving), and 11 (Provision as to Members of the House of Commons, 22 Geo. 3, c. 45, 41 Geo. 3, c. 52) ordered to stand part of the Bill.

1. 2. 3. 4.
Session and Chapter. Short Title. How far continued. Amending Acts.
46 & 47 Vict. c. 60 The Labourers (Ireland) Act, 1883. The whole Act 48 & 49 Vict. c. 77.
49 & 50 Vict. c. 59.
54 & 55 Vict. c. 48.
54 & 55 Vict. c. 71.
55 & 56 Vict. c. 7.
59 & 60 Vict. c. 53.
61 & 62 Vict. c. 37.
3 Edw. 7. c. 37.
6 Edw. 7. c. 37.
7 Edw. 7. c. 44.
9 Edw. 7. c. 42.
1 & 2 Geo. 5. c. 19.
4 & 5 Geo. 5. c. 32.
8 & 9 Geo. 5. c. 20.
9 & 10 Geo. 5. c. 55.
58 & 59 Vict. c. 21. The Seal Fisheries (North Pacific) 4ct, 1895. The whole Act.
4 Edw. 7. c. 24. The Wifeless Telegraphy Act, 1904. The whole Act.
7 Edw. 7. c. 55 The London Cab and Stage Carriage Act, 1907. As to the abolition of the privileged cab system, section two.
1 & 2 Geo. 5. c. 55. The National Insurance Act, 1911. Section forty-two 3 & 4 Geo. 5. c. 37.
4 & 5 Geo. 5. c. 57.
4 & 5 Geo. 5. c. 81.
7 & 8 Geo. 5. c. 62.
10 & 11 Geo. 5. c. 10.
2 & 3 Geo. 5. c. 2 The Coal Mines (Minimum Wage) Act, 1912. The whole Act.
4 & 5 Geo. 5. c. 3 The Grey Seals Protection Act, 1914. The whole Act.
4 & 5 Geo. 5. c. 78 The Courts (Emergency Powers) Act, 1914. So far as it relates to orders made by any court before the thirty-first day of August, nineteen hundred and twenty-two. 6 & 7 Geo. 5. c. 13.
6 & 7 Geo. 5. c. 18.
7 & 8 Geo. 5. c. 25.
9 & 10 Geo. 5. c. 64
10 & 11 Geo. 5. c. 5.

Bill reported, without Amendment; to be read the Third time To-morrow.