§
A sinking fund or capital redemption policy issued by a registered insurance company in Scotland shall be treated for Inland Revenue purposes under the same category as a similar policy issued by a registered insurance company in England.—[Major McKenzie Wood.]
§ Brought up, and read the First time.
§ Major McKENZIE WOODI beg to move, "That the Clause be read a Second time."
I moved this Clause in Committee, and the Solicitor-General waxed rather facetious on that occasion. I hope he will not do so on this occasion, because my Amendment is a serious one, and I trust he will take it seriously. It is meant to deal with a real grievance. The case I brought to the notice of hon. Members was where, in an insurance policy issued by an insurance company in Scotland, the stamp duty payable was £31 5s., whereas the stamp duty on a similar policy issued by a company in England was only 6d. The Solicitor-General said that that was due to the interpretation of the Scottish Courts as to what actually it cost to make a bond in Scotland. That only states what is the cause of this anomaly; it does not deal with the question I am raising as to whether there is any real ground for the anomaly, and whether there might not be a remedy for it. I put down my Amendment to insure that in future, for this particular purpose of revenue, no difference should be entertained between an insurance policy of this kind whether it be issued by a Scottish company or by an English company. It is, obviously, very prejudicial to Scottish insurance companies if policies 195 issued by them are to be mulcted to this extent as compared with England. For my own part I see no justification for that course at all. I hope, therefore, that the Government will see fit to accept this Amendment, or, at any rate, if they do not they will give us some solid reason for differentiating so unfairly against Scotland and Scottish insurance companies.
§ The SOLICITOR - GENERALThis Clause was proposed on the last occasion at an hour of the night which precluded any adequate reply. I must say what I tried to say before on this point, that it depends upon the admirable system of law which prevails in Scotland as to whether the document referred to in the Amendment is a bond or not. According to Scottish law certain documents are bonds which in English law are not bonds, and it is not for me to say which is the best system. The fact of the matter is that bonds are taxed at a particular rate. The particular document which the hon. and gallant Member indicates in his Amendment is in Scotland held to be a bond, whilst in England it would not be held to be a bond. I am afraid that the hon. and gallant Gentleman (Major M. Wood) must devise some other method of bringing the law of Scotland into conformity with the law of England than by the proposal which he now makes. The difference is due to the fact that in Scotland an instrument securing the payment of a sum of money is a bond, even if given under hand only, while in England it is only a bond if it is given under seal. If the hon. and gallant Gentleman will make the law of Scotland agreeable to the law of England, I am afraid these documents must be taxed differently. Probably he is not satisfied with this answer, but if there is an anomaly, and attention has been called to it quite recently, some consideration will be given to see whether on some future occasion the anomaly, if it be a real anomaly, can be removed.
§ Mr. PRINGLEAlthough the Solicitor-General has succeeded in not being facetious to-night, he has not succeeded in being any more satisfactory. He has not dealt with the position as stated by 196 my hon. Friend the Member for Central Aberdeen (Major M. Wood). He has shown that an anomaly does exist from the revenue point of view, and that a legal document is treated by the Revenue Authorities in one way in England, while it is treated in a different way in Scotland. That is entirely due to the technicality that a bond in England must be under seal, but it is not so in Scotland. Surely, it is the object of the revenue to tax subjects equally in both countries. If it does not do so, then the revenue is acting unjustly. The hon. and learned Gentleman has offered no defence at all; he has not even dealt with the proposition that the new Clause would provide a remedy. He does not suggest that it does not. He has, in effect, admitted the existence of the anomaly due to the difference in the laws of the two countries. Yet here is a Clause which sets it right and he has nothing to say about it. I should like to have the Front Bench reinforced by a Law Officer from Scotland. We all know the great importance that was attached to the accession of the learned Solicitor-General for Scotland, and we are surprised and disappointed the House should not have the benefit of illumination from him on an obscure problem of this kind. It is regrettable the Government should have made no attempt to remove this inequality of the law which inflicts a great injustice on the Scottish taxpayer, and that it should have given no reason for rejecting the Clause of my hon. Friend which offers a means of doing it. I hope my hon. Friend will divide the House and thus enable it to express its opinion of the slackness and inefficiency of the Solicitor-General and the Financial Secretary in dealing with an important grievance of this kind.
§ Mr. FALCONERIf documents identical in England and Scotland have different legal effects it is the duty of the Treasury to make its taxation uniform, even if one course has to be taken for England and another for Scotland. Here we have a real grievance for Scotland, and it should be remedied by the Government and not be left to private Members to deal with by bringing in Bills to amend the existing law. It is up to the Financial Secretary to the Treasury to see that the taxation is levied in such a way that injustice cannot arise.
§ Question put, "That the Clause be read a Second time."
198§ The House divided: Ayes, 148; Noes, 255.
199| Division No. 263.] | AYES. | [10.50 p.m. |
| Alexander, A. V. (Sheffield, Hillsbro') | Hamilton, Sir R. (Orkney & Shetland) | Phillipps, Vivian |
| Ammon, Charles George | Hardie, George D. | Ponsonby, Arthur |
| Attlee, C. R. | Harney, E. A. | Potts, John S. |
| Barker, G. (Monmouth, Abertillery) | Harris, Percy A. | Pringle, W. M. R. |
| Barrie, Sir Charles Coupar (Banff) | Hastings, Patrick | Riley, Ben |
| Batey, Joseph | Hay, Captain J. P. (Cathcart) | Ritson, J. |
| Benn, Captain Wedgwood (Leith) | Hayday, Arthur | Roberts, C. H. (Derby) |
| Bennett, A. J. (Mansfield) | Hayes, John Henry (Edge Hill) | Roberts, Frederick O. (W. Bromwich) |
| Berkeley, Captain Reginald | Henderson, Rt. Hon. A. (N'castle, E.) | Robertson, J. (Lanark, Bothwell) |
| Bonwick, A. | Herriotts, J. | Royce, William Stapleton |
| Bowdler, W. A. | Hill, A. | Saklatvala, S. |
| Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. | Hinds, John | Salter, Dr. A. |
| Broad, F. A. | Hirst, G. H. | Sexton, James |
| Brotherton, J. | Jenkins, W. (Glamorgan, Neath) | Shaw, Thomas (Preston) |
| Brown, James (Ayr and Bute) | John, William (Rhondda, West) | Short, Alfred (Wednesbury) |
| Buckie, J. | Johnston, Thomas (Stirling) | Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir John |
| Burgess, S. | Jones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth) | Simpson, J. Hope |
| Burnie, Major J. (Bootle) | Jones, J. J. (West Ham, Silvertown) | Sitch, Charles H. |
| Buxton, Charles (Accrington) | Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) | Snell, Harry |
| Buxton, Noel (Norfolk, North) | Jones, R. T. (Carnarvon) | Spencer, George A. (Broxtowe) |
| Charleton, H. C. | Jones, T. I. Mardy (Pontypridd) | Stephenson, Lieut.-Colonel H. K. |
| Clarke, Sir E. C. | Jowett, F. W. (Bradford, East) | Stewart, J. (St. Rollox) |
| Clynes, Rt. Hon. John R. | Jowitt, W. A. (The Hartlepools) | Strauss, Edward Anthony |
| Collins, Pat (Walsall) | Kenyon, Barnet | Sullivan, J. |
| Collison, Levi | Lambert, Rt. Hon. George | Sutherland, Rt. Hon. Sir William |
| Cotts, Sir William Dingwall Mitchell | Lansbury, George | Thomas, Sir Robert John (Anglesey) |
| Darbishire, C. W. | Lawson, John James | Thomson, T. (Middlesbrough, West) |
| Davies, Evan (Ebbw Vale) | Leach, W. | Thorne, W. (West Ham, Plaistow) |
| Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) | Lee, F. | Thornton, M. |
| Davison, J. E. (Smethwick) | Lees-Smith, H. B. (Keighley) | Trevelyan, C. P. |
| Dudgeon, Major C. R. | Linfield, F. C. | Turner, Ben |
| Duffy, T. Gavan | Lowth, T. | Walsh, Stephen (Lancaster, Ince) |
| Dunnico, H. | Lunn, William | Watson, W. M. (Dunfermline) |
| Ede, James Chuter | MacDonald, J. R. (Aberavon) | Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda) |
| Edge, Captain Sir William | M'Entee, V. L. | Webb, Sidney |
| Edmonds, G. | McLaren, Andrew | Weir, L. M. |
| Edwards, C. (Monmouth, Bedwellty) | March, S. | Westwood, J. |
| Entwistle, Major C. F. | Marshall, Sir Arthur H. | White, Charles F. (Derby, Western) |
| Falconer, J. | Martin, F. (Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, E.) | Whiteley, W. |
| Foot, Isaac | Middleton, G. | Williams, David (Swansea, E.) |
| Gosling, Harry | Morel, E. D. | Williams, Dr. J. H. (Llanelly) |
| Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) | Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) | Williams, T. (York, Don Valley) |
| Greenall, T. | Mosley, Oswald | Wilson, C. H. (Sheffield, Attercliffe) |
| Greenwood, A. (Nelson and Colne) | Murnin, H. | Wintringham, Margaret |
| Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) | Murray, John (Leeds, West) | Wright, W. |
| Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool) | O'Grady, Captain James | Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton) |
| Groves, T. | Oliver, George Harold | |
| Grundy, T. W. | Paling, W. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| Guest, Hon. C. H. (Bristol, N.) | Parkinson, John Allen (Wigan) | Major McKenzie Wood and Mr. A. |
| Hall, F. (York, W. R., Normanton) | Parry, Lieut.-Colonel Thomas Henry | Shaw. |
| Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) | Pattinson, S. (Horncastle) | |
| NOES. | ||
| Agg-Gardner, Sir James Tynte | Bowyer, Capt. G. E. W. | Churchman, Sir Arthur |
| Alexander, E. E. (Leyton, East) | Boyd-Carpenter, Major A. | Clarry, Reginald George |
| Alexander, Col. M. (Southwark) | Brass, Captain W. | Clayton, G. C. |
| Apsley, Lord | Bridgeman, Rt. Hon. William Clive | Cobb, Sir Cyril |
| Archer-Shee, Lieut.-Colonel Martin | Brittain, Sir Harry | Cockerill, Brigadier-General G. K. |
| Ashley, Lt.-Col. Wilfrid W. | Brown, Major D. C. (Hexham) | Colfox, Major Wm. Phillips |
| Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley | Brown, Brig.-Gen. Clifton (Newbury) | Colvin, Brig.-General Richard Beale |
| Balfour, George (Hampstead) | Bruton, Sir James | Conway, Sir W. Martin |
| Banbury, Rt. Hon. Sir Frederick G. | Buckingham, Sir H. | Cope, Major William |
| Banks, Mitchell | Burn, Colonel Sir Charles Rosdew | Craig, Captain C. C. (Antrim, South) |
| Barlow, Rt. Hon. Sir Montague | Burney, Com. (Middx., Uxbridge) | Croft, Lieut.-Colonel Henry Page |
| Barnett, Major Richard W. | Butcher, Sir John George | Crook, C. W. (East Ham, North) |
| Barnston, Major Harry | Butler, H. M. (Leeds, North) | Crooke, J. Smedley (Deritend) |
| Becker, Harry | Butt, Sir Alfred | Curzon, Captain Viscount |
| Bell, Lieut.-Col. W. C. H. (Devizes) | Button, H. S. | Dalziel, Sir D. (Lambeth, Brixton) |
| Bellairs, Commander Carlyon W. | Cadogan, Major Edward | Davidson, J. C. C. (Hemel Hempstead) |
| Benn, Sir A. S. (Plymouth, Drake) | Campion, Lieut.-Colonel W. R. | Davidson, Major-General Sir J. H. |
| Bennett, Sir T. J. (Sevenoaks) | Cautley, Henry Strother | Davies, Alfred Thomas (Lincoln) |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry Cavendish | Cayzer, Sir C. (Chester, City) | Davison, Sir W. H. (Kensington, S.) |
| Berry, Sir George | Cecil, Rt. Hon. Sir Evelyn (Aston) | Dawson, Sir Philip |
| Betterton, Henry B. | Cecil, Rt. Hon. Lord H. (Ox. Univ.) | Dixon, C. H. (Rutland) |
| Birchall, Major J. Dearman | Chadwick, Sir Robert Burton | Doyle, N. Grattan |
| Bird, Sir William B. M. (Chichester) | Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. A. (Birm., W.) | Du Pre, Colonel William Baring |
| Blades, Sir George Rowland | Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N. (Ladywood) | Edmondson, Major A. J. |
| Ednam, Viscount | Jephcott, A. R. | Rhodes, Lieut.-Col. J. P. |
| Elliot, Capt. Walter E. (Lanark) | Jodrell, Sir Neville Paul | Richardson, Sir Alex. (Gravesend) |
| Ellis, R. G. | Johnson, Sir L. (Walthamstow, E.) | Richardson, Lt.-Col. Sir P. (Chertsey) |
| Erskine, James Malcolm Monteith | Joynson-Hicks, Sir William | Roberts, Samuel (Hereford, Hereford) |
| Erskine, Lord (Weston-super-Mare) | Kelley, Major Fred (Rotherham) | Robertson-Despencer, Major (Islgtn, W.) |
| Evans, Capt. H. Arthur (Leicester, E.) | Kennedy, Captain M. S. Nigel | Roundell, Colonel R. F. |
| Eyres-Monsell, Com. Bolton M. | King, Captain Henry Douglas | Ruggles-Brise, Major E. |
| Falcon, Captain Michael | Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement | Russell, William (Bolton) |
| Falle, Major Sir Bertram Godfray | Lamb, J. Q. | Russell-Wells, Sir Sydney |
| Fawkes, Major F. H. | Lane-Fox, Lieut.-Colonel G. R. | Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham) |
| Fermor-Hesketh, Major T. | Leigh, Sir John (Clapham) | Samuel, Samuel (W'dsworth, Putney) |
| Flanagan, W. H. | Lloyd, Cyril E. (Dudley) | Sanderson, Sir Frank B. |
| Ford, Patrick Johnston | Lloyd-Greame, Rt. Hon. Sir P. | Sandon, Lord |
| Foreman, Sir Henry | Locker-Lampson, G. (wood Green) | Sassoon, Sir Philip Albert Gustave D. |
| Foxcroft, Captain Charles Talbot | Locker-Lampson, Com O. (Handsw'th) | Scott, Sir Leslie (Liverp'l, Exchange) |
| Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. | Lorden, John William | Shepperson, E. W. |
| Furness, G. J. | Lorimer, H. D. | Shipwright, Captain D. |
| Galbraith, J. F. W. | Loyd, Arthur Thomas (Abingdon) | Simpson-Hinchliffe, W. A. |
| Ganzoni, Sir John | Lumley, L. R. | Skelton, A. N. |
| Garland, C. S. | McNeill, Ronald (Kent, Canterbury) | Smith, Sir Allan M. (Croydon, South) |
| Gates, Percy | Malone, Major P. B. (Tottenham, S.) | Snowden, Philip |
| Gaunt, Rear-Admiral Sir Guy R. | Margesson, H. D. R. | Somerville, A. A. (Windsor) |
| Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John | Mason, Lieut.-Col. C. K. | Somerville, Daniel (Barrow-in-Furness) |
| Greaves-Lord, Walter | Mercer, Colonel H. | Spender-Clay, Lieut.-Colonel H. H. |
| Greene, Lt.-Col. Sir W. (Hack'y, N.) | Milne, J. S. Wardlaw | Stanley, Lord |
| Grenfell, Edward C. (City of London) | Mitchell, W. F. (Saffron Walden) | Steel, Major S. Strang |
| Gretton, Colonel John | Mitchell, Sir W. Lane (Streatham) | Stewart, Gershom (Wirral) |
| Guinness, Lieut.-Col Hon. W. E. | Moore-Brabazon, Lieut.-Col. J. T. C. | Stott, Lt.-Col. W. H. |
| Gwynne, Rupert S. | Morden, Col. W. Grant | Sueter, Rear-Admiral Murray Fraser |
| Hacking, Captain Douglas H. | Moreing, Captain Algernon H. | Sugden, Sir Wilfrid H. |
| Hall, Lieut.-Col. Sir F. (Dulwich) | Morrison-Bell, Major A. C. (Honiton) | Sykes, Major-Gen. Sir Frederick H. |
| Hall, Rr-Adml Sir W. (Liv'p'l, W. D.'by | Murchison, C. K. | Thompson, Luke (Sunderland) |
| Halstead, Major D. | Nall, Major Joseph | Thomson, F. C. (Aberdeen, South) |
| Hamilton, Sir George C. (Altrincham) | Nesbitt, Robert C. | Titchfield, Marquess of |
| Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry | Newman, Colonel J. R. P. (Finchley) | Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement |
| Harmswoth, Hon. E. C. (Kent) | Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) | Tubbs, S. W. |
| Harrison, F. C. | Newson, Sir Percy Wilson | Turton, Edmund Russborough |
| Harvey, Major S. E. | Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge) | Wallace, Captain E. |
| Hawke, John Anthony | Nicholson, Brig.-Gen. J. (Westminster) | Ward, Col. L. (Kingston-upon-Hull) |
| Hay, Major T. W. (Norfolk, South) | Nicholson, William G. (Petersfield) | Waring, Major Walter |
| Henn, Sir Sydney H. | O'Neill, Rt. Hon. Hugh | Watts, Dr. T. (Man., Withington) |
| Hennessy, Major J. R. G. | Ormsby-Gore, Hon. William | Wells, S. R. |
| Herbert, Dennis (Hertford, Watford) | Paget, T. G. | Weston, Colonel John Wakefield |
| Hewett, Sir J. P. | Parker, Owen (Kettering) | Wheler, Col. Granville C. H. |
| Hilder, Lieut.-Colonel Frank | Pease, William Edwin | White, Lt.-Col. G. D. (Southport) |
| Hiley, Sir Ernest | Pennefather, De Fonblanque | Whitla, Sir William |
| Hoare, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir S. J. G. | Penny, Frederick George | Wilson, Col. M. J. (Richmond) |
| Hohler, Gerald Fitzroy | Perkins, Colonel E. K. | Winterton, Earl |
| Holbrook, Sir Arthur Richard | Perring, William George | Wise, Frederick |
| Hood, Sir Joseph | Philipson, Mabel | Wolmer, Viscount |
| Hopkins, John W. W. | Pollock, Rt. Hon. Sir Ernest Murray | Wood, Rt. Hn. Edward F. L. (Ripon) |
| Hopkinson, A. (Lancaster, Mossley) | Pownall, Lieut.-Colonel Assheton | Wood, Sir H. K. (Woolwich, West) |
| Houfton, John Plowright | Pretyman, Rt. Hon. Ernest G. | Wood, Maj. Sir S. Hill. (High Peak) |
| Hundson, Capt. A. | Privett, F. J. | Woodcock, Colonel, H. C. |
| Hume, G. H. | Raine, W. | Worthington Evans, Rt. Hon. Sir L. |
| Hunter-Weston, Lt.-Gen. Sir Aylmer | Rankin, Captain James Stuart | Yate, Colonel Sir Charles Edward |
| Hurd, Percy A. | Rawlinson, Rt. Hon. John Fredk. Peel | Yerburgh, R. D. T. |
| Hutchison, G. A. C. (Midlothian, N.) | Rees, Sir Beddoe | |
| Inskip, Sir Thomas Walker H. | Reid, D. D. (County Down) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— |
| Jackson, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. F. S. | Remer, J. R. | Colonel Leslie Wilson and Colonel |
| Jenkins, W. A. (Brecon and Radnor) | Remnant, Sir James | Gibbs. |
Question, "That the Clause be read a Second time," put, and agreed to.