HC Deb 24 April 1923 vol 163 cc260-4
28. Mr. W. WATSON

asked the Under-Secretary to the Scottish Board of Health, if his attention has been drawn to the demand made at a meeting of the Scottish National Housing and Town Planning Committee at Bridge of Allan that a subsidy of £10 per house should be allowed in the industrial districts in Scotland; and will he endeavour to ascertain the opinion of local authorities on that point before the Housing Bill is proceeded with?

Captain ELLIOT (Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Health, Scotland)

I have seen a report of the meeting of the Committee referred to. The views of representatives of local authorities in Scotland as to the amount of the subsidy have already been ascertained, and have been the subject of most careful consideration by the Scottish Board of Health and the Secretary for Scotland.

Captain WEDGWOOD BENN

Is the hon. and gallant Gentleman of opinion that the cost of building in Scotland is necessarily higher than in England?

Captain ELLIOT

There are some subsequent questions on that point on the Order Paper to-day.

Mr. HOGGE

Is the Scottish Board of Health of opinion that it is possible to build houses in rural areas in Scotland as cheaply as in burghs?

Captain ELLIOT

I do not think that that arises.

Mr. HOGGE

On a point of Order That is the question. The question deals with the cost of building in rural areas, and what I want to know is, has the Scottish Board of Health considered the question whether it is possible to build, on the subsidy available under the Housing Bill which is to be introduced this afternoon, on the same basis as in the burghs?

Mr. SPEAKER

I think the hon. Member had better wait till we reach the subsequent questions on that point.

31. Mr. JOHNSTON

asked the Under-Secretary to the Scottish Board of Health if the quota of new houses due to Scotland under the 1919 Act is 28,900; if the Scottish Board of Health had sanctioned 23,600 up to 28th February, 1923; and what steps he proposes to take to ensure that the balance of 5,300 is secured to Scotland before July of next year?

Captain ELLIOT

The quota of new houses allocated to Scotland in schemes under the 1919 Act is 25,550. The figure first quoted in the hon. Member's question is an estimate and includes the numbers of houses that were expected to be erected under the Private Builders' and Crofters' Subsidy Schemes, namely, 3,200 and 150 houses respectively. Up to 28th February, 1923, the Scottish Board of Health had sanctioned tenders for 22,530 of the houses allocated to schemes under the 1919 Act. In order to secure that the outstanding balance of allocated houses is completed before the elapse of the subsidy period (19th August, 1924), the Scottish Board of Health are in communication with the authorities concerned, with a view to their submission of tenders at the earliest practicable date.

33. Mr. DUNCAN MILLAR

asked the Under-Secretary to the Scottish Board of Health the difference per house in the cost of building in Scotland as compared with England brought out by the Scottish local authorities in the representations made by them to the Scottish Office for a larger subsidy than £6 per house in Scotland: whether these figures have been checked by the Scottish Ministry of Health; and what difference in cost has been accepted by the Scottish Ministry of Health?

Captain ELLIOT

The difference per house in the cost of building in Scotland as compared with England brought out by the expert officers of the Scottish local authorities was £38 10s. The figures submitted have been checked by the Scottish Board of Health, who consider that £23 may be accepted as the difference in cost per house warranted by Scottish climatic conditions.

Mr. MILLAR

Is it not the case that when Scottish houses of the ordinary type were compared with English houses the difference brought out by the local authorities was £122?

Captain ELLIOT

No, Sir. Those were two different houses, and you cannot compare the cost of building one house with the cost of building another house unless the two houses are the same.

Mr. MACPHERSON

Does not that justify a difference in the amount of subsidy?

Captain ELLIOT

The hon. and learned Member has a subsequent question on the Paper on that very point.

34. Mr. MILLAR

also asked the Under-Secretary to the Scottish Board of Health whether representations have been received by him from the Scottish local authorities and the Scottish Committee appointed to advise the Scottish Office as to Scottish housing requirements, setting forth the difference in Scottish housing needs and conditions from those in England and calling for a larger subsidy than the £6 per house provided for England; and whether the Scottish Office have supported the claim for a larger subsidy on account of the special conditions prevailing in Scotland and the need for providing sufficiently weatherproof walls and roofs?

Captain ELLIOT

Representations of the nature referred to have been received. It appeared to the Scottish Board of Health that for climatic reasons a somewhat more favourable annual subsidy per house should be granted in Scotland, but, as stated in the reply given on the 29th March by my hon. and learned Friend the Solicitor-General for Scotland to a question addressed to him by the hon. Member for Midlothian and Peebles (Mr. Clark Hutchison), it has not been found practicable to differentiate the conditions of subsidy in the two countries.

Several hon. Members rose—

Mr. SPEAKER

There will be a Debate on the matter later in the afternoon.

32. Mr. MILLAR

asked the Under-Secretary to the Scottish Board of Health the standard in regard to room-space, height, strength of walls and roofs, adopted by the Scottish local authorities in their building schemes as approved by the Scottish Ministry of Health, under the Housing and Town Planning (Scotland) Act, 1919?

Captain ELLIOT

As the reply to this question is somewhat lengthy and technical, I propose, with the permission of the hon. and learned Member, to circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Following is the reply:

HOUSING IN SCOTLAND.

Statement of General Building Standards.

(1) Room Space:

(2) Heights of Ceilings:

Ground Floors, 8 feet 6 inches.

Upper Floors for

  1. (a) Cottages, 8 feet.
  2. (b) Flatted houses, 8 feet 6 inches, and
  3. (c) Tenements, 8 feet 6 inches.

(3) Strength of Outer Walls for

  1. (i) Brick or Concrete. Construction,
    1. (a) 14 inch or 9 inch solid walls, rough cast externally and strapped and lathed internally, or
    2. (b) 16 inch or 11 inch hollow walls, rough cast externally and plastered on hard internally.
  2. (ii) Stone Construction.

24 inch or 18 inch solid walls either pointed or rough cast externally and strapped and lathed internally.

The thickness of walls depends on height of buildings, local conditions and materials available.

(4) Roofs:

Scantlings of roof timbers are:

Rafters, 5 inches by 2 inches, and Ties, 6 inches by 2 inches.