HC Deb 19 April 1923 vol 162 cc2232-7
14. Mr. LANSBURY

asked the Minister of Pensions whether it is proposed to terminate the appointments of Lieut.-General Sir W. Purse, Regional Director, London Region, who is in receipt of a service pension of £1,040 per annum; Major-General Sir J. Adye, Deputy-Regional Director, London Region, who is in receipt of a service pension of £1,000 per annum; Major-General F. H. Kelly, Regional Director, Northern Region, who is in receipt of a service pension of £1,000 per annum, and Colonel R. J. Copeland, Deputy-Commissioner of Medical Services, who is in receipt of a service pension of £800 per annum; what is the age of each of these officers; what was the original salary they received when entering the service of the Ministry; what increases in salary have been given since their initial appointments; whether any reduction has recently been made in their salaries; and, if so, what was the amount in each case?

Major TRYON

These officers are efficiently performing highly important duties of which they have special experience and it would not be in the public interest to terminate their appointments at present. As the desired particulars of age and service involve a considerable number of figures, I am circulating them in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Mr. LANSBURY

Does the right hon. Gentleman consider it just, while so many unemployed ex-officers are walking about, to employ these gentlemen at their salaries; does he maintain that only these particular people can do this work, and, if so, what will he do if one of them happens to die?

Major TRYON

I did not say these were the only people who could do the work, but we consider we have done our best in selecting the most suitable people for the appointments. I am certainly not prepared to consent to discriminating against ex-service men of any rank, high or low, because they have pensions, when we are selecting people for appointment or payment.

Name. Age. Original Salary on appointment to Ministry. Alterations in Salary. Remarks.
Lieut.-Gen. Sir W. T. Furse, K.C.B., D.S.O. 58 £800 3–1–20 £1,000 1–4–20 The increase shown in this case represents the higher rate approved for the post of Regional Director, London, to which Lieut.-Gen. Sir W. T. Furse was transferred from Birmingham on 1st April, 1920.
£975 1–4–23
Major-Gen. Sir John Adye, K.C.M.G., C.B. 65 £800 23–6–19 £780 1–4–23 —
Major-Gen. F.H. Kelly, C.B., C.M.G. 63 £350 17–2–19 £800 18–9–19 Prior to appointment in September, 1919, as Regional Director, Major-Gen. Kelly held the post of "Officers' Friend."
£900 1–1–20
£875 1–4–23
Col. R. J. Copeland … 60 £750 15–3–20 £800 1–8–20 Deputy Commissioner of Medical Services.
£835 1–9–20
£950 1–1–21
£890 1–10–22
16. Mr. CAIRNS

asked the Minister of Pensions what are the duties of the secretariat of the Ministry; and what was the cost of the secretariat for the three months ending 31st March in the years 1919, 1920, 1921, 1922, and 1923?

Major TRYON

The functions of the secretariat of the Ministry of Pensions are direction of policy under the Minister and general supervision and control of the Ministry machine. The secretariat was not set up until the end of the financial year 1918–19. The cost for the three months ending 31st March in the four following years was as follows:

£
3 months ending 31st March, 1920 8,039
3 months ending 31st March,1921 10,169
3 months ending 31st March,1922 9,874
3 months ending 31st March,1923 9,563
Mr. CAIRNS

Is it not a fact that the main work of the Secretariat is to reduce pensions?

Major TRYON

No, Sir. The duty of the Secretariat is to assist us in carrying

Mr. LANSBURY

Not in the case of men who have £800 a year pensions! Do I understand the right hon. Gentleman would put them on a level with the men who have pensions of 30s. a week? Here you have plenty of ex-officers who can do this work—[HON. MEMBERS "Order! "]

Following are the particulars promised:

out the general policy desired by the House, in the interest of the pensioners —a duty which I consider they are discharging to the public advantage.

17. Mr. CAIRNS

asked the Minister of Pensions whether, in view of the high cost of the staff at the headquarters of the Ministry, as shown in the Estimates for the current year, namely, £1,105,712, as compared with the sum allocated to the regions, namely, £695,580, and for the area offices, namely, £569,708, it is proposed at an early date to effect economy by returning some of the principal officers and other permanent civil servants to those branches of the Civil Service whence they were transferred to the Ministry of Pensions?

Major TRYON

I would draw the hon. Member's attention to the fact that the total amount shown in the Estimates for the current financial year in respect of the cost of the headquarters of the Ministry shows a reduction of more than 25 per cent. on the Estimate for 1922–23. More than half of the amount is for Pension Issue Office, which is concerned with the actual issue of pensions for the whole of the United Kingdom, with the exception of Scotland. Other large items in this Estimate provide for Officers' Branch, Special Grants Committee, and other branches which have no counterpart in the regions or areas. Of the total staff, less than three per cent. are permanent civil servants transferred from other Departments. Each of these officers is fully employed on important duties, and it would be the reverse of economy to dis-organise the work of the Ministry by withdrawing competent and experienced staff.

25. Mr. T. GRIFFITHS

asked the Minister of Pensions the establishment number or name, present salary, and length of service in the Department of every woman officer who holds or has held a rank higher than that of a Grade I clerk and from which she has not been degraded on account of inability to fulfil the responsibilities of the grade concerned?

Major TRYON

There are 99 temporary women now on the staff of my Department who hold a rank higher than that of a Grade I clerk. Their salary scales range from £165 to £345 per annum and their service from five to seven years. No reduction of status among these officers for reasons other than inefficiency has as yet been effected, but 26 of them have been warned that they may shortly become redundant in their present rank, and that continued employment can only be offered to them in a lower grade.

Captain BERKELEY

How does the right hon. Gentleman define a "temporary" woman?

Major TRYON

One who is not on the permanent establishment.

26. Mr. JOHN DAVISON

asked the Minister of Pensions how many temporary members of his staff who previously held rank above that of Grade III have been appointed to his Department as writing assistants; and, in each such woman's case, what is her present length of Government service, rate of pay, previous rank, and last salary received in a temporary capacity?

29. Mr. ROBERT RICHARDSON

asked the Minister of Pensions how many temporary members of his staff have been appointed to his Department as writing assistants; how many of these were previously employed as Grade III clerks; and what was the average length of Government service of the latter on appointment?

32. Mr. FREDERICK HALL

asked the Minister of Pensions how many temporary women members of his staff have been appointed to his Department as clerical officers; how many of these previously held a rank above that of Grade III; and what is the establishment number or name, length of Government service, present rate of pay, previous rank, and last salary received in a temporary capacity of each clerk concerned?

Major TRYON

156 temporary women officers of my Department have been established as clerical officers, and 379 as writing assistants. 117 of the clerical officers, and 116 of the writing assistants, were previously employed in a rank higher than Grade III. It will be realised that in view of the large numbers involved it is not practicable within the limits of this answer to give, the detailed information asked for in each individual case, but the average length of Government service prior to Establishment may be taken as about three years. The majority of the officers of rank above Grade III were paid on the scales for Grade I and Grade II clerks, of which the mean at the present time is 56s, 11d. a week for Grade I and 53s 5d. for Grade II. The mean of the rate for Grade III is 48s. 4d. The minimum rate of pay for clerical officers, including bonus at the current rate, is £144 per annum; for writing assistants it is 39s. 8d. weekly.

36. Mr. McENTEE

asked the Minister of Pensions how many women have been appointed to his Department in an established capacity by transfer from another Department, and in each such woman's case what was her rank and rate of pay prior to such transfer, what duties does she at present perform, and what is her present salary and rank?

Major TRYON

The total number of established women who have been ap- pointed to the Ministry by transfer from other Departments is 49, of whom four were appointed from the recent special competition for women for higher posts

No. Present Bank and Scale Rank and Scale prior to Transfer.
1 Lady Superintendent, Pension Issue Office. £350–£450 Staff Clerk £170–£200
1 Senior Executive Officer £300–£400 Supervisor £150–£190
1 Staff Accounts Officer £300–£400 1st Class Woman Clerk £120–£150
2 Staff Officers 1 £330–£420 1 Principal Woman Clerk £160–£200
1 £330–£400 1 Assistant Inspector £100–£300
22 Higher Clerical Officers £230–£300 1 H.C.O £230–£300
1 Employment Officer £170–£220
3 1st Class Women Clerks £120–£150
11 2nd Class Women Clerks £65–£120
1 Higher Grade Clerk £110–£150
4 Clerical Officers £80–£180
1 Lower Grade Clerk £60–£105
17 Clerical Officers £80–£180 17 Clerical Officers £80–£180
1 Controller of Typists £230–£300 Shorthand-Typist 42s. weekly.
3 Chief Superintendents of Typists. £200–£230 1 Shorthand-Typist 42s. weekly.
1 Chief Supt. of Typists £150–£180
1 Shorthand-Typist 38s. weekly.
1 Typist 22s.–36s. weekly. 1 Typist 22s.–36s. weekly.

In each case the officer is performing duties appropriate to the established rank held.