HC Deb 27 June 1922 vol 155 cc1985-9

Section twenty-one of the Finance Act, 1920 (which provides for a deduction from assessable income in respect of children), shall have effect as if for the words "thirty-six pounds" and "twenty-seven pounds" there were substituted, respectively, the words "forty-five pounds" and "thirty pounds."—[Mr. Rose.]

Brought up, and read the First time.


I beg to move "That the Clause be read a Second time."

This proposal needs very little explanation. My proposal is to substitute an allowance of £45 for £36 in the first case and £30 for £27 in the second case in Section 21 of the Finance Act, 1920. This is a proposal which will affect the poorer class of Income Tax payers, and it is on their behalf that this new Clause is being moved. The whole matter has been thrashed out here before and there is no need to discuss it any further now.


I rise to support this new Clause. [HON. MEMBERS: "What is it?"] It is quite natural that one with a knowledge of the infliction which is imposed upon those responsible for the rearing of children should support this proposal. I certainly feel that the Chancellor of the Exchequer will have great sympathy for this proposal. I certainly feel that the Chancellor of the Exchequer will have great sympathy with those who are seeking relief under this Clause, the assumption being that the relief is given on an estimate as to the cost of the upkeep and maintenance of the child or children for whom the relief is obtained during the year. When one considers that it costs considerably more than the allowance under the present system, I feel that whatever may be

the difficulties of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the difficulties of those who have to make this provision, unless they get the relief we suggest, are manifestly much greater. The amount of £27 per annum for the second child and onwards, as relief, is utterly inadequate. It may be that hon. Members are looking upon me as a special pleader in this instance on behalf of those who, perhaps, are called upon to suffer to a much greater extent; but I feel after the approval they have expressed of my sentiments we may hope that when the Clause goes to a Division—should that be necessary—those who have so spontaneously endorsed my appeal and are evidently now able to grip the substance of my argument, will see that the Clause is carried, even should the Chancellor of the Exchequer refuse to accept it.


My hon. Friend has been talking of intricate matters, with which I am very sadly unacquainted. He claimed my sympathy, but what I would beg to tender to him is my hearty admiration. It is quite true that these often romantic matters, when it comes to the question of the Exchequer, begin to sound in terms of pounds, shillings and pence, and the Amendment of which it is sought to obtain the approval of the Committee to-night would cost altogether £1,200,000. That is on the assumption that the average family does not amount to more than three. I hope my hon. Friend will not think me very hard-hearted if I am not able to follow him with the same enthusiasm that he has displayed.

Question put, "That the Clause be read a Second time."

The Committee divided: Ayes, 56; Noes, 283.

Division No. 180.] AYES. [11.20 p.m.
Adamson, Rt. Hon. William Hartshorn, Vernon Rendall, Athelstan
Banton, George Hayward, Evan Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring)
Barker, G. (Monmouth, Abertillery) Hills, Major John Waller Royce, William Stapleton
Barnes, Major H. (Newcastle, E.) Hirst, G. H. Short, Alfred (Wednesbury)
Barton, Sir William (Oldham) Hogge, James Myles Sitch, Charles H.
Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. Holmes, J. Stanley Swan, J. E.
Bramsdon, Sir Thomas Irving, Dan Thomas, Brig.-Gen. Sir O. (Anglesey)
Briant, Frank John, William (Rhondda, West) Thomson, T. (Middlesbrough, West)
Bromfield, William Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) Walsh, Stephen (Lancaster, Ince)
Cairns, John Kenworthy, Lieut.-Commander J. M Ward, Col. J. (Stoke upon Trent)
Carter, W. (Nottingham, Mansfield) Lawson, John James Watts-Morgan, Lieut.-Col. D.
Collins, Sir Godfrey (Greenock) Lunn, William White, Charles F. (Derby, Western)
Davies, A. (Lancaster, Clitheroe) Maclean, Rt. Hn. Sir D. (Midlothian) Wignall, James
Edwards, C. (Monmouth, Bedwellty) Mosley, Oswald Williams, Col. P. (Middlesbrough, E.)
Finney, Samuel Murray, Dr. D. (Inverness & Ross) Wintringham, Margaret
Foot, Isaac Myers, Thomas Wood, Major M. M. (Aberdeen, C.)
Gillis, William Naylor, Thomas Ellis
Grundy, T. W. Newbould, Alfred Ernest TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Guest, J. (York, W. R., Hemsworth) O'Grady, Captain James Mr. Rose and Mr. Hayday.
Hall, F. (York, W.R., Normanton) Raffan, Peter Wilson
Adkins, Sir William Ryland Dent Foxcroft, Captain Charles Talbot Mond, Rt. Hon. Sir Alfred Moritz
Agg-Gardner, Sir James Tynte France, Gerald Ashburner Moore-Brabazon, Lieut.-Col. J. T. C.
Ainsworth, Captain Charles Fraser, Major Sir Keith Morden, Col. W. Grant
Allen, Lieut.-Col. Sir William James Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. Moreing, Captain Algernon H.
Amery, Rt. Hon. Leopold C. M. S. Ganzoni, Sir John Morrison, Hugh
Armstrong, Henry Bruce Gee, Captain Robert Morrison-Bell, Major A. C.
Ashley, Colonel Wilfrid W. George, Rt. Hon. David Lloyd Munro, Rt. Hon. Robert
Astor, Viscountess Gibbs, Colonel George Abraham Murchison, C. K.
Atkey, A. R. Gilbert, James Daniel Murray, Hon. A. C. (Aberdeen)
Baird, Sir John Lawrence Gilmour, Lieut.-Colonel Sir John Murray, Rt. Hon. C. D. (Edinburgh)
Balfour, George (Hampstead) Gould, James C. Murray, John (Leeds, West)
Banbury, Rt. Hon. Sir Frederick G. Goulding, Rt. Hon. Sir Edward A. Neal, Arthur
Barker, Major Robert H. Gray, Major Ernest (Accrington) Newman, Colonel J. R. P. (Finchley)
Barlow, Sir Montague Green, Joseph F. (Leicester, W.) Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter)
Barnett, Major Richard W. Greene, Lt.-Col, Sir W. (Hack'y, N.) Newson, Sir Percy Wilson
Barnston, Major Harry Greenwood, Rt. Hon. Sir Hamar Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge)
Barrand, A. R. Greig, Colonel Sir James William Nicholson, Brig.-Gen. J. (Westminster)
Barrie, Sir Charles Coupar (Banff) Grenfell Edward Charles Nicholson, Reginald (Doncaster)
Bell, Lieut.-Col. W. C. H. (Devizes) Gretton, Colonel John Nicholson, William G. (Petersfield)
Bellairs, Commander Canyon W. Gritten, W. G. Howard Nield, Sir Herbert
Benn, Sir A. S. (Plymouth, Drake) Guest, Capt. Rt. Hon. Frederick E. Norman, Major Rt. Hon. Sir Henry
Bennett, Sir Thomas Jewell Guthrie, Thomas Maule Norton-Griffiths, Lieut.-Col. Sir John
Betterton, Henry B. Gwynne, Rupert S. Ormsby-Gore, Hon. William
Birchall, J. Dearman Hacking, Captain Douglas H. Palmer, Major Godfrey Mark
Bird, Sir R. B. (Wolverhampton, W.) Hall, Lieut.-Col Sir F. (Dulwich) Palmer, Brigadier-General G. L.
Blake, Sir Francis Douglas Hall, Rr-Adml Sir W. (Llv'p'l,W. D'by) Parker, James
Blane, T. A. Hamilton, Sir George C. Parry, Lieut.-Colonel Thomas Henry
Berwick, Major G. O. Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry Pease, Rt. Hon. Herbert Pike
Boscawen, Rt. Hon. Sir A. Griffith- Harmsworth, C. B. (Bedford, Luton) Peel, Col. Hon. S. (Uxbridge, Mddx.)
Bowyer, Captain G. W. E. Harmsworth, Hon. E. C. (Kent) Perkins, Walter Frank
Brassey, H. L. C. Haslam, Lewis Philipps, Gen. Sir I. (Southampton)
Breese, Major Charles E. Henderson, Lt.-Col. V. L. (Tradeston) Pickering, Colonel Emil W.
Bridgeman, Rt. Hon. William Clive Hennessy, Major J. R. G. Pinkham, Lieut.-Colonel Charles
Briggs, Harold Herbert, Dennis (Hertford, Watford) Pollock, Rt. Hon. Sir Ernest Murray
Broad, Thomas Tucker Hinds, John Polson, Sir Thomas A.
Brotherton, Colonel Sir Edward A. Hoare, Lieut.-Colonel Sir S. J. G. Pownall, Lieut.-Colonel Assheton
Brown, Brig.-Gen. Clifton (Newbury) Hohler, Gerald Fitzroy Pratt, John William
Bruton, Sir James Holbrook, Sir Arthur Richard Pretyman, Rt. Hon. Ernest G.
Buckley, Lieut.-Colonel A. Hood, Sir Joseph Purchase, H. G.
Burdon, Colonel Rowland Hope, Sir H. (Stirling & Cl'ckm'nn, W.) Rae, Sir Henry N.
Burgoyne, Lt.-Col. Sir Alan Hughes Hope, Lt.-Col. Sir J. A. (Midlothian) Remer, J. R.
Burn, Col. C. R. (Devon, Torquay) Hope, J. D. (Berwick & Haddington) Remnant, Sir James
Campion, Lieut.-Colonel W. R. Hopkins, John W. W. Renwick, Sir George
Carr, W. Theodore Horne, Edgar (Surrey, Gulldford) Richardson, Sir Alex. (Gravesend)
Casey, T. W. Horne, Sir R. S. (Glasgow, Hillhead) Richardson, Lt.-Col. Sir P. (Chertsey)
Cautley, Henry Strother Howard, Major S. G. Roberts, Rt. Hon. G. H. (Norwich)
Cecil, Rt. Hon. Sir Evelyn (Aston) Hunter, General Sir A. (Lancaster) Roberts, Samuel (Hereford, Hereford)
Chamberlain, N. (Birm., Ladywood) Hurd, Percy A. Roberts, Sir S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Child, Brigadier-General Sir Hill Inskip, Thomas Walker H. Robinson, S. (Brecon and Radnor)
Clay, Lieut.-Colonel H. H. Spender Jackson, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. F. S. Robinson, Sir T. (Lancs., Stretford)
Clough, Sir Robert Jameson, John Gordon Roundell, Colonel R. F.
Coats, Sir Stuart Jephcott, A. R. Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham)
Cockerill, Brigadier-General G. K. Johnstone, Joseph Samuel, Samuel (W'dsworth, Putney)
Colfox, Major Wm. Phillips Jones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth) Sanders, Colonel Sir Robert Arthur
Colvin, Brig.-General Richard Beale Jones, J. T. (Carmarthen, Llanelly) Sassoon, Sir Philip Albert Gustave D.
Cope, Major William Joynson-Hicks, Sir William Scott, A. M. (Glasgow, Bridgeton)
Cory, Sir C. J. (Cornwall, St. Ives) Kellaway, Rt. Hon. Fredk. George Scott, Sir Leslie (Liverp'l, Exchange)
Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities) Kidd, James Seddon, J. A.
Curzon, Captain Viscount King, Captain Henry Douglas Seely, Major-General Rt. Hon. John
Davidson, Major-General Sir J. H. Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement Shaw, Hon. Alex. (Kilmarnock)
Davies, Alfred Thomas (Lincoln) Lane-Fox, G. R. Shaw, William T. (Forfar)
Davies, David (Montgomery) Larmor, Sir Joseph Shortt, Rt. Hon. E. (N'castle-on-T.)
Davies, Sir David Sanders (Denbigh) Law, Alfred J. (Rochdale) Simm, M. T.
Davies, Thomas (Cirencester) Lewis, Rt. Hon. J. H. (Univ., Wales) Smith, Sir Allan M. (Croydon, South)
Davison, Sir W. H. (Kensington, S.) Lindsay, William Arthur Smith, Sir Harold (Warrington)
Dawson, Sir Philip Lloyd, George Butler Sprot, Colonel Sir Alexander
Dewhurst, Lieut-Commander Harry Locker-Lampson, G. (Wood Green) Stanley, Major Hon. G. (Preston)
Doyle, N. Grattan Locker-Lampson, Com. O. (H'tingd'n) Stanton, Charles Butt
Du Pre, Colonel William Baring Lorden, John William Starkey, Captain John Ralph
Edgar, Clifford B. Lort-Williams, J. Steel, Major S. Strang
Edge, Captain Sir William Lowther, Major C. (Cumberland, N.) Stephenson, Lieut.-Colonel H. K.
Ednam, Viscount Lyle, C. E. Leonard Stewart, Gershom
Erskine, James Malcolm Monteith McLaren, Hon. H. D. (Leicester) Strauss, Edward Anthony
Evans, Ernest McLaren, Robert (Lanark, Northern) Sturrock, J. Leng
Eyres-Monsell, Com. Bolton M. M'Lean, Lieut.-Col. Charles W. W. Sueter, Rear-Admiral Murray Fraser
Falcon, Captain Michael Macnaghten, Sir Malcolm Sugden, W. H.
Falle, Major Sir Bertram Godfray McNeill, Ronald (Kent, Canterbury) Surtees, Brigadier-General H. C.
Fell, Sir Arthur Macpherson, Rt. Hon. James I. Sutherland, Sir William
Flides, Henry Malone, Major P. B. (Tottenham, S.) Sykes, Sir Charles (Huddersfield)
Fisher, Rt. Hon. Herbert A. L. Manville, Edward Taylor, J.
Ford, Patrick Johnston Marriott, John Arthur Ransome Thomas, Sir Robert J. (Wrexham)
Foreman, Sir Henry Martin, A. E. Thomson, F. C. (Aberdeen, South)
Forestier-Walker, L. Matthews, David Thomson, Sir W. Mitchell- (Maryhill)
Forrest, Walter Mitchell, Sir William Lane Thorpe, Captain John Henry
Townley, Maximilian G. Weston, Colonel John Wakefield Wolmer, Viscount
Tryon, Major George Clement Wheler, Col. Granville C. H. Wood, Hon. Edward F L. (Ripon)
Turton, Edmund Russborough White, Col. G. D. (Southport) Wood, Sir H. K. (Woolwich, West)
Vickers, Douglas Willey, Lieut.-Colonel F. V. Wood, Sir J. (Stalybridge & Hyde)
Wallace, J. Williams, C. (Tavistock) Worthington-Evans, Rt. Hon. Sir L.
Walters, Rt. Hon. Sir John Tudor Willoughby, Lieut.-Col. Hon. Claud Yeo, Sir Alfred William
Walton, J. (York, W. R., Don Valley) Wilson, Lt.-Col. Sir M. (Bethnal Gn.) Young, Sir Frederick W. (Swindon)
Ward, Col. L. (Kingston-upon-Hull) Wilson, Col. M. J. (Richmond) Younger, Sir George
Waring, Major Walter Windsor, Viscount
Warner, Sir T. Courtenay T. Winterton, Earl TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Watson, Captain John Bertrand Wise, Frederick Colonel Leslie Wilson and Mr.