HC Deb 12 July 1922 vol 156 cc1359-63

From and after the fifth day of April, nineteen hundred and twenty-two, as respects England, and from and after the twenty-fourth day of May, in the same year, as respects Scotland, the Acts relating to Inhabited House Duty shall not apply to any house of a less annual value than forty-five pounds.—[Mr. Sutton.]

Brought up, and read the First time.

Mr. SUTTON

I beg to move, "That the Clause be read a Second time."

I believe that up to the time the Act was passed all houses were exempt under £20 a year, and we are asking now that all houses should be exempt under £45 a year. I believe the Chancellor of the Exchequer will realise that there are tens of thousands of working people whose rents are very high indeed. Even corporations, under housing schemes, are charging as much as £1 or 25s. a week for houses for the working classes, and we believe on this side of the House that it is unfair that Inhabited House Duty should be paid on so large a rent. We are hoping that the Chancellor of the Exchequer will see his way to accept this Clause. If there is a class of people who are practically crippled financially at the present time on account of unemployment it is the working classes of this country. The Minister of Labour admitted this afternoon that we have about 1½ million people unemployed, and there are tens of thousands working short time. I hope that the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in the interests of these poor people, will accept this Clause.

Mr. WIGNALL

I beg to second the Motion.

Sir L. SCOTT

At the present time, in regard to houses on which the lower rate of duty is paid—shops, public houses, hotels, etc.—houses under £20 are exempt, and those between £20 and £40 pay 2d., those over £40 and not exceeding £60 pay 4d. Ordinary dwelling houses stand at 6d. Those are not high rates, and they have not been altered for 30 years. It is not a case in which the rate has been increased at all during the War period, for the purpose of raising extra revenue, and the Treasury do not feel that they can, in this case, make any concession. Of course, as we know, the value of money has gone down, and, consequently, rents, in some cases have risen; in fact, there has been a general rise in rentals corresponding to the decrease in the value of money, but the rate has not been increased at all, and the burden is not really a heavy one. For those reasons the Treasury do not feel that they can make the alteration asked for by the Clause. The question was raised by question and answer in this House, on the 21st March this year, when the Chancellor of the Exchequer stated quite plainly that he did not see his way to making any alteration in the present rates. The cost would be £550,000.

Mr. N. MACLEAN

The right hon. Gentleman says that the inhabited rate has not been increased during the last 30 years. Does he not recognise that owing to the general increase in the rents, and increase in the assessments, the annual sum paid by inhabitants is undoubtedly greater? The right hon. Gentleman seems desirous of having the House believe that they are not paying—

Sir L. SCOTT

I said the rate had not been increased, though I did admit that in consequence of the decrease in the value of money there had been a rise in the rentals.

Mr. MACLEAN

And the actual sum paid by the people, therefore, is greater

than it was before the War. The Chancellor of the Exchequer was asked how much this would involve, and the answer is about £500,000. Is it not advisable to make a concession of this kind to these people when, earlier this afternoon, it was found necessary to make a concession to the mineral royalty owner? There was no outcry then on the part of the Solicitor-General and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that the country could not afford the sum to be conceded to these poor mineral owners. If people who are taking minerals out of the country without any right are given a concession, there is surely an obligation to make some concession to a portion of the population to whom no concession has been made during the whole passage of the Bill. This is surely a small concession. The hearts of hon. Members having been opened this afternoon, I hope, now that they have dined, and arrived at that warmth which comes from dining, that they will grant this concession.

Question put, "That the Clause be read a Second time."

The House divided: Ayes, 68; Noes, 206.

Division No. 222.] AYES. [10.15 p.m.
Adamson, Rt. Hon. William Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) Parkinson, John Allen (Wigan)
Ammon, Charles George Graham, W. (Edinburgh, Central) Rattan, Peter Wilson
Banton, George Grundy, T. W. Rendall, Athelstan
Barker, G. (Monmouth, Abertillery) Guest, J. (York, W.R., Hemsworth) Richardson, R. (Houghton-le Spring)
Barnes, Major H. (Newcastle, E.) Hall, F. (York, W.R., Normanton) Royce, William Stapleton
Barton, Sir William (Oldham) Halls, Walter Sexton, James
Bell, James (Lancaster, Ormskirk) Hayday, Arthur Sitch, Charles H.
Benn, Captain Wedgwood (Leith) Henderson, Rt. Hon. A. (Widnes) Smith, W. R. (Wellingborough)
Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. Hirst, G. H. Spoor, B. G.
Briant, Frank Hogge, James Myles Swan, J. E.
Bromfield, William Holmes, J. Stanley Thomson, T. (Middlesbrough, West)
Brown, James (Ayr and Bute) Irving, Dan Thorne, W. (West Ham, Plaistow)
Cairns, John Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) Waterson, A. E.
Cape, Thomas Kennedy, Thomas Wedgwood, Colonel Josiah C.
Carter, W. (Nottingham, Mansfield) Kenworthy, Lieut.-Commander I. M. White, Charles F. (Derby, Western)
Cecil, Rt. Hon. Lord R. (Hitchin) Lawson, John James Wignall, James
Clynes, Rt. Hon. John R. Lunn, William Williams, Penry (Middlesbrough, E.)
Davies, A. (Lancaster, Clitheroe) Maclean, Nell (Glasgow, Govan) Wilson, James (Dudley)
Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) Maclean, Rt. Hn. Sir D. (Midlothian) Wood, Major M. M. (Aberdeen, C.)
Davison, J. E. (Smethwick) Murray, Hon. A. C. (Aberdeen) Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton)
Edwards, G. (Norfolk, South) Murray, Dr. D. (Inverness & Ross)
Foot, Isaac Myers, Thomas TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Gaibraith. Samuel Naylor, Thomas Ellis Mr. Sutton and Mr. T. Griffiths.
Gillis, William Newbould, Alfred Ernest
NOES.
Agg-Gardner, Sir James Tynte Barrie, Sir Charles Coupar (Banff) Broad, Thomas Tucker
Ainsworth, Captain Charles Bartley-Denniss, Sir Edmund Robert Brown, Major D. C.
Amery, Rt. Hon. Leopold C. M. S. Bellairs, Commander Cariyon W. Brown, Brig.-Gen. Clifton (Newbury)
Armstrong, Henry Bruce Betterton, Henry B. Bruton, Sir James
Atkey, A. R. Birchall, J. Dearman Buchanan, Lieut.-Colonel A. L. H.
Bagley, Captain E. Ashton Bird, Sir William B. M. (Chichester) Buckley, Lieut.-Colonel A.
Baird, Sir John Lawrence Blair, Sir Reginald Burdon, Colonel Rowland
Balfour, George (Hampstead) Borwick, Major G. O. Campion, Lieut.-Colonel W. R.
Banbury, Rt. Hon. Sir Frederick G. Bowyer, Captain G. W. E. Carr, W. Theodore
Barnston, Major Harry Bridgeman, Rt. Hon. William Clive Casey, T. W.
Barrand, A. R. Briggs, Harold Chamberlain, N. (Birm., Ladywood)
Chilcot, Lieut.-Com. Harry W. Hurd, Percy A. Raw, Lieutenant-Colonel Dr. N.
Churchill, Ht. Hon. Winston S. Hurst, Lieut.-Colonel Gerald B. Renter, J. R.
Clay, Lieut.-Colonel H. H. Spender Inskip, Thomas Walker H. Renwick, Sir George
Clough, Sir Robert Jackson, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. F. S. Richardson, Sir Alex. (Gravesend,
Coats, Sir Stuart Jephcott, A. R. Richardson, Lt.-Col. Sir P. (Chertsey)
Colfox, Major Wm. Phillips Jesson, C. Roberts, Rt. Hon. G. H. (Norwich)
Colvin, Brig.-General Richard Beale Jodrell, Neville Paul Roberts, Samuel (Hereford, Hereford)
Conway, Sir W. Martin Johnson, Sir Stanley Roberts, Sir S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Cooper, Sir Richard Ashmole Johnstone, Joseph Robinson, Sir T. (Lancs., Stretford)
Courthope, Lieut.-Col. George L. Kelley, Major Fred (Rotherham) Rodger, A. K.
Dalziel, Sir D. (Lambeth, Brixton) Kidd, James Roundell, Colonel R. F.
Davidson, J. C. C.(Hemel Hempstead) King, Captain Henry Douglas Royds, Lieut.-Colonel Edmund
Davidson, Major-General Sir J. H. Lane-Fox, G. R. Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham)
Davies, Thomas (Cirencester) Law, Alfred J. (Rochdale) Sanders, Colonel Sir Robert Arthur
Dawson, Sir Philip Lindsay, William Arthur Scott, A. M. (Glasgow, Bridgeton)
Du Pre, Colonel William Baring Lister, Sir R. Ashton Scott, Sir Leslie (Liverp'l, Exchange)
Eyres-Monsell, Com. Bolton M. Locker-Lampson, G. (Wood Green) Seddon, J. A.
Falle, Major Sir Bertram Godfray Locker-Lampson, Com. O. (H'tingd'n) Shaw, Hon, Alex. (Kilmarnock)
Fell, Sir Arthur Lorden, John William Shaw, William T. (Forfar)
Flannery, Sir James Fortescue Lort-Williams, J. Simm, M. T.
Ford, Patrick Johnston Loyd, Arthur Thomas (Abingdon) Smith, Sir Allan M. (Croydon, South)
Forestier-Walker, L. McConnell, Thomas Edward Smith, Sir Malcolm (Orkney)
Forrest, Walter Mackinder, Sir H. J. (Camlachle) Stanley, Major Hon. G. (Preston)
Foxcroft. Captain Charles Talbot McLaren, Hon. H. D. (Leicester) Stephenson, Lieut.-Colonel H. K.
Frece, Sir Walter de McMicking, Major Gilbert Sugden, W. H.
Ganzonl, Sir John Macpherson, Rt. Hon. James I. Surtees, Brigadier-General H. C.
Gee, Captain Robert Macqulsten, F. A. Sutherland, Sir William
Gibbs, Colonel George Abraham Mallalieu, Frederick William Taylor, J.
Gilbert, James Daniel Marks, Sir George Croydon Terrell, George (Wilts, Chippenham)
Gilmour, Lieut.-Colonel Sir John Martin, A. E. Thomson, F. C. (Aberdeen, South)
Glyn, Major Ralph Matthews, David Thomson, Sir W. Mitchell- (Maryhill)
Gray, Major Ernest (Accrington) Molson, Major John Elsdale Townley, Maximilian G.
Green, Joseph F. (Leicester, W.) Morrison, Hugh Tryon, Major George Clement
Greene, Lt.-Col. Sir W. (Hackn'y, N.) Murchison, C. K. Waddington, R.
Greenwood, William (Stockport) Murray, Rt. Hon. C. D. (Edinburgh) Wallace, J.
Grelg, Colonel Sir James William Murray, John (Leeds, West) Walters, Rt. Hon. Sir John Tudor
Grenfell, Edward Charles Neal, Arthur Walton, J. (York, W. R., Don Valley)
Guest, Capt. Rt. Hon. Frederick E. Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) Ward, Col. L. (Kingston-upon-Hull)
Guthrie, Thomas Maule Nicholson, Brig.-Gen. J. (Westminster) Ward, William Dudley (Southampton)
Hallwood, Augustine Nicholson, Reginald (Doncaster) Warner, Sir T. Courtenay T.
Hamilton, Sir George C. Nicholson, William G. (Petersfield) Warren, Sir Alfred H.
Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry Norris, Colonel Sir Henry G. Weston, Colonel John Wakefield
Harmsworth, C. B. (Bedford, Luton) Palmer, Major Godfrey Mark Wheler, Col. Granville C. H.
Henderson, Lt.-Col. V. L. (Tradeston) Palmer, Brigadier-General G. L. Williams, C. (Tavistock)
Herbert, Dennis (Hertford, Watford) Parker, James Wills, Lt.-Col. Sir Gilbert Alan H.
Hilder, Lieut.-Colonel Frank Pearce, Sir William Wilson, Rt. Hon. J. W. (Stourbridge)
Hills, Major John Waller Pease, Rt. Hon. Herbert Pike Wilson, Col. M. J. (Richmond)
Hohier, Geraid Fitzroy Percy, Lord Eustace (Hastings) Windsor, Viscount
Hood, Sir Joseph Perkins, Walter Frank Wise, Frederick
Hope, Sir H. (Stirling &Cl'ckm'nn'n,W.) Perring, William George Wood, Hon. Edward F. L. (Ripon)
Hope, Lt.-Col. Sir J. A. (Midlothian) Pickering, Colonel Emil W. Wood, Sir H. K. (Woolwich, West)
Hopkins, John W. W. Pollock, Rt. Hon. Sir Ernest Murray Wood, Sir J. (Stalybridge & Hyde)
Hopkinson, A. (Lancaster, Mossley) Pratt, John William Wood. Major Sir S. Hill- (High Peak)
Horne, Sir R. S. (Glasgow, Hillhead) Pretyman, Rt. Hon. Ernest G. Worsfold. T. Cato
Hotchkin, Captain Stafford Vere Purchase, H. G. Yeo, Sir Alfred William
Houfton, John Plowright Rae, Sir Henry N. Young, Sir Frederick W. (Swindon)
Houston, Sir Robert Patterson Randies, Sir John Scurrah
Hunter. General Sir A. (Lancaster) Rankin, Captain James Stuart TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Hunter-Weston, Lt.-Gen. Sir Aylmer Ratcliffe Henry Butler Colonel Leslie Wilson and Mr. McCurdy.