§ 53. Sir ARTHUR FELLasked the Chancellor of the Exchequer why he includes among the Estimates for Civil Services end Revenue Departments such items as War pensions, old age pensions, railway subsidy, bread subsidy, and similar expenditure voted by Parliament and over which neither the Treasury nor the Departments have any control or chance of reducing; and if some better method of presenting the Civil Service Estimates could be devised?
§ Mr. BALDWINOur constitutional system distinguishes between estimates for naval and military and air services 243 on the one hand—that is, non-Civil Services, and on the other hand, estimates for Civil Services, and under the latter heading are included all estimates of expenditure for purposes which are outside naval, military and air services. The Standing Orders of the House do not recognise any other distinction. War pensions, old age pensions, railway subsidy, bread subsidy, etc., are all, therefore, properly classed as Civil Services. I cannot entirely accept the view suggested in my hon. Friend's question that neither the Treasury nor the Departments exercise any control over the expenditure in question. But I am glad to have an opportunity of calling attention to the fact that by far the greater part of the expenditure provided for in the Civil Services Estimates is for services of the kind mentioned in the question, and that the Civil Services Estimates are not, as is sometimes erroneously believed, merely or even mainly estimates of the sums required for the salaries and emoluments of Civil servants.
§ Sir A. FELLWould it not be possible to group these in some different way in order to avoid a great deal of the criticism bestowed on them this year?
§ Mr. BALDWINI do not think that any grading would do away with a great deal of the criticism from which we are suffering.