§ 34. Colonel Sir JAMES REMNANTasked the Prime Minister if his attention has been called to the very strong feeling of this House, as shown on Wednesday, 25th February last, in the Division on the Motion to increase the pensions granted to police officers and men before 1st April, 1919, in order to meet the increased cost of living; and, if so, what action he proposes to take to give effect to it?
§ 37. Mr. A. WILLIAMSasked the Prime Minister whether he will advise the appointment of a Royal Commission or Select Committee to inquire into the hardship suffered, owing to the great rise of prices, by pensioners from the Army, Navy, Civil Service, police, railway, and other services as well as by other people of small means derived from friendly societies or small investments, and into the possibility of the State helping some or all of these people?
§ 68. Mr. D. HERBERTasked the Prime Minister whether, pending the time when the finances of the country may justify a general increase in pre-war pensions to retired servants of the State, the Government will provide funds for giving relief in cases of extreme necessity to be administered by a commission on lines similar to the Officers Civil Liabilities Commission?
§ The PRIME MINISTERThe Government have again carefully considered this subject and cannot depart from the decision already announced that, having regard to the very heavy expenditure due to the War, it would be most unjust to the general taxpayer to raise the pre-war pensions in accordance with the present scale. We have, however, appointed a Committee to consider whether any steps can be taken to relieve exceptional cased of hardship due, for example, to age and infirmity, but the House must realise how great are the difficulties in dealing 1519 with this subject owing to the financial situation.
§ Sir J. REMNANTMay I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman cannot see his way to refer the question of increasing the pre-war police pensions to the Home Secretary's Committee which was appointed to deal with the conditions of the police, and which could be called together at any moment, seeing that the House by Resolution two day's ago, and on the admission of the Home Secretary, was unanimously in favour of steps being taken in this direction?
§ Sir C. KINLOCH-COOKEIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that a very large expression of opinion has been made by this House in the form of a Resolution which has been forwarded to him, to the Leader of the House, and to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, asking if he will kindly deal with all pre-War pensioners at the same time, and not by piecemeal, and that he shall deal especially with necessitous cases immediately, and will he say what form of Committee he proposes to set up?
§ Mr. BILLINGMay I ask whether, having regard to the fact that the Government were beaten by nearly three to one, he proposes to disregard that entirely, and does he not think it a sufficient reason to set up a special Committee; and, if not, what is the use of private Members' Motions?
§ The PRIME MINISTERI think the question put by my hon. Friend (Sir J. Remnant) was answered by the question put to my hon. Friend who followed him. It is quite impossible to deal with this problem piecemeal. The Government have got to face the question as a whole. Whatever decision is taken with regard to one class of pensioners must be taken with regard to every class of public pensioner, and that is why the decision is a very serious one, especially in the present condition of the public finances. A decision taken might involve enormous additions to the public expenditure, and we could not accept the responsibility for that in the present state of the public finances. Therefore, we propose to consider very carefully dealing with cases of hardship, where the pension given is inadequate for the maintenance of life for people who are incapable of earning anything 1520 for themselves. That we propose to consider, and we have appointed a Committee to examine it. It was appointed by the Cabinet for the purpose of examining the question, and advising the Cabinet on the subject. We must consider not merely the grievance, but the expense, and I hope the House will allow us to consider it very carefully, because the public expenditure is very heavy, and it is no use complaining of taxation in one Debate and in another Debate pressing for more expenditure. We must look at the whole question all round, and I really trust that my hon. Friends will permit us to examine it very carefully, from every point of view. It is quite impossible to decide it in respect of one class of officials only.
§ Sir J. REMNANTWe all know the right hon. Gentleman's sympathy in the matter, but may I ask whether he realises that there is a Committee appointed by his own Home Secretary which could deal with one section of this question, at all events, and report to him at once, and the delay in dealing with this matter may very seriously accelerate death amongst these old public servants of ours?
§ The PRIME MINISTERAs a matter of fact, I think I can assure my hon. Friend that there is going to be no delay. We were discussing it very thoroughly to-day, with the assistance of the Treasury officials, and we decided that it required further investigation into the whole of the facts. To decide in respect of one class of officials would really be to decide in respect of all, and you cannot therefore leave it to one Committee dealing with one class of public pensioners; you must consider the whole.
§ Mr. A. WILLIAMSMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether this Committee's investigations will be strictly confined to pensioners deriving their pensions from the State, or whether they will be extended to any other class of pensioners, as, for instance, those drawing pensions from the railway funds, and also whether the very similar position of persons deriving small sums from friendly societies or similar sources will be included?
§ The PRIME MINISTERThis illustrates the danger of giving way in respect of the principle, because once that is done, as the hon. Gentleman in his question 1521 indicates, it will involve a most enormous burden on the State. Therefore, the Government have got to be very careful in the decision they take in this respect, because the moment they lay down a principle it would be very difficult to resist its further application.
§ Sir C. KINLOCH-COOKEIs this a Departmental Committee?
§ The PRIME MINISTERIt is a Cabinet Committee.