HC Deb 28 June 1920 vol 131 cc82-5

(1) For the purpose of the provisions of this Act with respect to existing officers there shall be established a committee to be called the Civil Service Committee.

(2) The Committee shall consist of five members, of whom one shall be appointed by the Treasury, one by the Government of Southern Ireland, one by the Government of Northern Ireland, one by the existing Irish officers, and one (who shall be chairman) by the Lord Chief Justice of England.

(3) Any vacancy arising in the Committee shall be filled by the authority by whom the member whose place is vacant was appointed.

(4) The Treasury may make regulations as to the manner in which the member to be appointed by the existing Irish officers is to be selected.

(5) The Committee may act by any three members, and, subject to the provisions of this Act, the Committee may regulate their own procedure.

(6) The determination of the Civil Service Committee on any claim or question which is to be determined by them under the provisions of this Act relating to existing officers shall be final and conclusive.

(7) Any expenses incurred by the Civil Service Committee to such amount as may be approved by the Joint Exchequer Board shall be paid out of moneys provided by the Parliament of the United Kingdom, and shall be made good by means of deductions from the Irish residuary share of reserved taxes in accordance with regulations made by the Treasury.


I beg to move, in Sub-section (2), to leave out the word "five", and to insert instead thereof the word "six".

The Civil Service Committee set up under this Clause will have important duties with regard to the selection of officers for transfer from the Imperial Service to the service of either the Northern or the Southern Parliament. The Civil Service desire to be represented on that Committee, and, as the Bill is drafted, they will have one representative. This Amendment suggests that instead of having one they should have two representatives. They have asked for a majority, but obviously that cannot be granted. Still, we do want to meet them as far as possible, and we are, therefore, moving this Amendment. There are several consequential Amendments.

Captain W. BENN

I do not know whether this is the right point at which to ask what will be the effect on the constitution of this Committee if the Southern Parliament does not meet or if it be dissolved and the Crown Colony arrangement substituted.


My hon. and gallant Friend is familiar with the new Clause on the Paper which we cannot discuss to-day. It provides the necessary arrangements to make it operative, and those arrangements would cover this Clause.

Colonel NEWMAN

Has the Irish Civil Service any association or union who would be able to appoint two members?


Yes, they have.

Amendment agreed to.

Further Amendment made: In Sub-section (2), leave out the word "one" ["one by the existing Irish officers"], and insert instead thereof the word "two".

Amendment proposed: At the end of Sub-section (2) add the words Provided that after the existing Irish officers have been allocated in manner hereinafter provided, of the members of the committee appointed by the existing Irish officers one shall be appointed by such of those officers as have become officers of the Government of Southern Ireland, and one by such of those officers as have become officers of the Government of Northern Ireland."—[Sir L. Worthington-Evans.]

Captain CRAIG

Can we have some explanation of this?


The Civil Service want two representatives to be appointed as soon as the Commission is set up, and when the two Parliaments are established then one will be nominated by the Southern Parliament and the other by the Northern Parliament. We cannot provide that they shall be so nominated from the commencement, as those two Parliaments will not then be in existence.


What are the duties of this Civil Service Committee?


It will have to deal with the settlement of pension and compensation claims for some time to come.


And will the representatives be chosen with due regard to the interests of the Northern and the Southern Parliaments respectively?



Captain BENN

Will these representatives be appointed by the Civil Service and the Trade Unions?


I cannot give an undertaking on behalf of the trade unions or the Civil Service, but, naturally, those bodies will be consulted in regard to the appointments.

Amendment agreed to.

Further Amendments made: In Subsection (4) leave out the word "member" and insert instead thereof the word "members." Leave out the word "is" and insert instead thereof the word "are." In Sub-section (5), after the word "members", insert the words "and notwithstanding any vacancy in their number".—[Sir L. Worthington-Evans.]

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill."


I wish to ask whether Sub-section (7), printed in italics, comes within the compass of the Resolution which has been reported to-day?

The FIRST LORD of the ADMIRALTY (Mr. Long)

We shall come to that in a moment.

Question put, and agreed to.