HC Deb 15 June 1920 vol 130 cc1060-3
18. Major GLYN

asked the Secretary of State for War whether any decision has been come to regarding the future of the Scots, Irish, and Welsh Guards regiments; whether these regiments are at present below establishment; what has been the weekly average number of recruits of each regiment in November, 1919, February, 1920, and May, 1920; and whether, whilst maintaining these three regiments as at present constituted, he will consider the possibility of effecting an economy by having one regimental office in Buckingham Gate for the three regiments?

17. Lieutenant-Colonel DALRYMPLE WHITE

asked the Secretary of State for War whether any definite decision has been arrived at with regard to the suggested re-organisation of the Irish and Welsh Guards; whether the Report of the proceedings of the conference of the colonels and commanding officers dealing with this matter was officially communicated to the Press; and, if not so communicated, what steps, if any, he proposes to take in the matter?

19. Major JOHN EDWARDS

asked the Secretary of State for War whether, before any decision is taken to abolish the Welsh Guards Regiment, steps will be taken to ascertain Welsh opinion on the subject?

21. Sir JOHN HOPE

asked the Secretary of State for War whether, in view of the announcement by the Army Council that the rumours of changes in the organisation of the Guards are premature, he can give assurances that there is no intention of changing the name or altering the independent organisation of the Scots Guards?

22. Mr. HINDS

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware of the resentment caused in Wales by the report that a proposal to abolish the Welsh Guards is under consideration; and whether he will take steps to ensure that Welsh national sentiment is considered in this matter, especially having regard to the achievements of the Welsh Guards during the recent War?

24. Major EDWARDS

asked the Secretary of State for War whether, before any decision is taken to abolish the Welsh Guards Regiment, steps will be taken to ascertain Welsh opinion on the subject?

Mr. CHURCHILL

This subject has now been considered by the Army Council. There is no intention of disbanding the Irish or Welsh Guards so long as they are able to maintain their recruiting in such a manner as to preserve the national character of the regiments. The maintenance, however, of five regimental headquarters, which, now that the Guards' regimental lieutenant-colonels no longer command Territorial brigades, perform few functions other than those of record offices, requires careful study. It may seem advisable to reduce them to three, or even to establish one joint record office for the Brigade of Guards. In any case, care will be taken to balance the claims of efficiency and economy against those of sentiment and tradition.

Major GLYN

May I ask whether there is any foundation at all for the statement that there is going to be a change in the Scots Guards?

Mr. CHURCHILL

No; there never was any question raised of making a change in the Scots Guards. The suggestion was that the Irish Guards should be brigaded with them.

Sir J. HOPE

Is it not a fact that if the Scots, Irish, and Welsh Guards were in one regimental headquarters, while the other two retained their independent regimental headquarters, it would in effect be amalgamating the Irish, Welsh, and Scots Guards in one regiment?

Mr. CHURCHILL

I do not agree that it would have that effect, but I do not wish to prejudge that; it must be examined very carefully. We must not turn down incontinently suggestions of economy which do lead to a considerable saving of public money.

Major O'NEILL

May I ask how much it is estimated would be saved by these alterations, and will they not in effect do away with the separate regiment of the Irish Guards, and the Welsh Guards too for that matter, which will affect the esprit de corps of these regiments, and is the amount of money to be saved worth that result?

Mr. CHURCHILL

That would rather prejudge the consideration of the question of amalgamating the headquarters, which must be taken in hand. The original proposals, which were put forward from purely military quarters, would have resulted only in the reduction of the Welsh Guards to a company and of the uniting under one record organisation of the Irish Guards and of the two Scots Guards battalions, leaving the Guards in three regiments of three battalions each. Those proposals, if carried out, would have resulted in a saving of £275,000 a year, but as it was never intended that such a step should be taken unless recruiting for the Welsh and Irish Guards failed, the only further question which is open, from the point of view of economy, is that concerned with the regimental offices. The maximum economy in that direction, assuming that separate bands are kept for each battalion, as is intended, would be about £20,000 in that respect per annum.

Major EDWARDS

So far as maintaining the national character of these regiments is concerned, do not the Welsh Guards compare very favourably with the Scots Guards or the Grenadier Guards?

Mr. PALMER

Will the right hon. Gentleman save £3,000,000 on the uniforms and allow us to spend the rest on keeping these men in their present regiments?

Mr. HINDS

Is it not a fact that recruiting for the Welsh Guards in the last six months has been higher than in any other battalion of the Guards?

Mr. CHURCHILL

I naturally have made careful enquiries, and out of 500 recruits 200 were Welshmen, but if you take the wastage in a battalion at 150 in a year, which is not an unreasonable calculation, it will be seen that there would be a gain of 50 Welshmen per annum if that figure were maintained. That is a matter of great importance, having regard to the fact that this battalion was reconstructed so quickly after the War. So far as the rate of recruiting for the Welsh Guards is concerned, it is higher in the last few months than that for the Grenadiers or the Coldstreams, but as the Grenadiers and Coldstreams had already practically attained their full strength, they were only allowed to recruit at a lower rate.

Major GLYN

Will the right hon. Gentleman reply to that part of my question dealing with the rate of recruiting and say whether it is not a fact that the reason why the recruiting for other regiments has gone up is that certain regiments of Foot Guards have been closed to recruiting?

Mr. SPEAKER

The right hon. Gentleman has just stated that.