§ 31. Mr. ALFRED DAVIES (Clitheroe)asked the Minister of Labour whether he is now in a position to state the result of his investigations regarding the present period of nine months' training for ex-service men who wish to enter commercial careers?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAIt is considered that a period of nine months is normally sufficient for training men in commercial work, provided that proper care is exercised in selecting the candidates for such a course. Divisional directors have, however, power to give an extension of 25 per cent. on this period where circumstances appear to demand this in individual cases.
§ 33. Sir CECIL BECKasked the Minister of Labour whether his attention has been directed to the continuous delays in the working of the scheme for training ex-service men; whether he is aware that the Saffron Walden Sub-Committee of the Essex Local War Pensions Committee has on its books 16 men who have made application for training, and that some of them have already been waiting 12 months; whether he will particularly note the case of Private A. Cornell, who applied on 18th June, 1919, for training as a boot repairer; and whether he is aware that in spite of all the necessary facilities for training being available in Saffron Walden itself, and employment having been offered to Mr. Cornell on the completion of his training, the necessary sanction cannot be obtained from the Ministry of Labour?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAThere is, I am afraid, a long waiting list—24,000 in fact, 389 though it was 27,000 at the beginning of the year. Difficulties of finding suitable premises, equipment, and tools are frequently not easy to overcome, and then there is the discussion with the Local Technical Advisory Committee as to whether trainees should be added to the numbers already included in the respective crafts. But I am glad to say that there has been much greater expedition in most of these matters recently. And so far as I am concerned, my aim is to secure still further expedition. As regards the entrance of new candidates to training in the boot and shoe trade, this has had to be very largely suspended in view of the representations of the Trade Board, who have strongly expressed the view that the trade is becoming over-crowded. In any case, I am afraid men cannot be trained as repairers only. I am having inquiry made into the particular case to which my hon. Friend draws attention.
§ Sir C. BECKIs my right hon. Friend aware that many of these men have been waiting for 18 months and over for their training, that the particular person whom I mention has been offered employment if he could obtain training, which is obtainable in Saffron Walden itself without any great expenditure to the State, and that the delay in his training has been due to the delay of the Ministry of Labour in giving him permission to receive the training?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAIt is not accurate to say that the delay is due to the Ministry of Labour. In this particular case the Trade Board has told us that, as far as they can see, the numbers of men in training are already sufficiently large, and therefore we cannot proceed further in that direction.
§ Sir C. BECKWill my right hon. Friend consider the need of a little elasticity? There is no question of over-crowding, because this man is offered a job if he can secure the necessary training. He fought gallantly in the War, and it is only necessary for him to obtain permission from the Ministry of Labour to secure a training in order that he may earn a decent living.
§ Dr. MACNAMARAAs I have said, I will have special inquiry made into this case, but the boot and shoe industry have either in training or trained 4,500 men, 390 and in some localities they are already on short time. We have to consider whether we should train men if, in the end, they will find themselves out of employment. But I am much obliged to my hon. Friend for calling attention to the matter, and I will do what I can.
§ Sir R. ADKINSWill the right hon. Gentleman consider the possibility of training men for boot repairing, which is a different thing from the boot and shoe industry, and which, in rural areas particularly, is not overcrowded?
§ Dr. MACNAMARACertainly; but so far as I can ascertain from inquiry, if a man is trained as a boot repairer he would not be deemed a fully skilled craftsman, to be paid 65s. a week. That is the difficulty, but I will look further into the matter.
§ Mr. SHORTAs the fault appears to lie with the Ministry rather than with the Boot and Shoe Operatives' Trade Union, will the right hon. Gentleman notify Lord Haig of that fact?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAThis is a matter for the Trade Board, which, as the hon. Member knows, is composed of members of the trade unions, members of the employers and three appointed persons, the chairman, vice-chairman, and another, and it is their decision that there are sufficient men trained, and it is not a question for Lord Haig or the Ministry of Labour. It is a question as to which all of us want to do our best.
§ Mr. SHORTIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that Lord Haig accuses the boot and shoe operatives of putting obstacles in the way?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAThere is a starred question on the Paper for Friday next in regard to that, and I propose to give a full answer upon that matter. I will only say that I have had great pleasure in spending the whole morning with Lord Haig, seeing what these men are doing, and it would be impossible to overestimate the keenness and zeal which he has shown with regard to his old comrades.