HC Deb 15 July 1920 vol 131 cc2566-8
11. Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY

asked the Chief Secretary of Ireland whether William Kane, Samuel King, Thomas Bramble, Samuel Fleming, and John Lappin, all Ulster Volunteers of Londonderry, were tried recently by special Crimes Court in Londonderry before Major Brett, resident magistrate, and Mr. R. Sparrow, resident magistrate, on a charge of carrying rifles and ammunition; whether they were found guilty and sentenced to a fine of £5 each; whether Joseph Trany, of Bunavie, county Limerick, was tried by district court-martial at Cork on 23rd June, 1919, on a charge of having a revolver and ammunition; and whether he was found guilty and sentenced to 18 months' imprisonment with hard labour?

Sir H. GREENWOOD

The prisoners referred to in the first part of the question pleaded guilty and were fined as stated, but I would point out that the hon. and gallant Member, while mentioning all the cases of Ulster Volunteers charged with carrying arms during the Derry riots, and implying that they were given preferential treatment, has omitted to mention that several persons of the opposite faction were arrested in exactly the same circumstances, were brought before the same Court, charged with the same offence, and received the same sentence. The circumstances in the case of James Tracy—not Joseph Trany, as mentioned in the question—were quite different.

Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHY

Was not James Tracy punished in this way long before there were political murders or assassinations of police in Ireland, and does the right hon. Gentleman not think a better example should be made of men of all faiths and factions carrying rifles, in Londonderry?

Mr. C. PALMER

Does the right hon. Gentleman not think it is quite natural that Ulster men should arm themselves against the dastardly assassinations of the Sinn Feiners?

Sir H. GREENWOOD

With reference to the supplementary question put by the hon. and gallant Gentleman, I cannot, without notice, say when James Tracy was sentenced, but I am convinced that the sentence of 18 months' hard labour for what was in effect threatening the life of an officer was not too severe.

Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHY

May I ask why these men of different faith in Londonderry are only fined for carrying rifles and ammunition, especially in view of the heavy loss of life in Londonderry, and whether the right hon. Gentleman is going to take possession of the rifles scattered all over that unhappy city?

Sir H. GREENWOOD

The charge was that of carrying rifles and ammunition, and the sentence was given by a Resident Magistrate, and I cannot interfere with the sentence of any judicial officer in Ireland.

Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHY

Is the right hon. Gentleman now going to take possession of these rifles scattered all over Londonderry?

Mr. SPEAKER

The hon. and gallant Member must give notice of that.